Kemper Profiling Amp

Discussion in 'Soundgear' started by Zenarcist, May 23, 2019.

  1. Zenarcist

    Zenarcist Audiosexual

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    Can you tell the difference?

     
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  3. RMorgan

    RMorgan Rock Star

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    Honestly, although it's impressively close, I can tell the difference.

    Real amp has more high-mids and highs, and overall sounds more lively.

    Maybe this difference can be eliminated with simple EQ moves, maybe not.

    Kemper comes pretty close, but it lacks something, like all digital emulations. We can't forget that, behind the hood, Kemper is just software, just like other amp sims. They could very well decide to sell it in software form eventually, just like Line 6 did with Helix, although I don't think it would be a good marketing decision, because the hardware form aggregates a lot of "magic" which separates it from the "just another amp sim" category.

    Anyway, I the context of a mix, this difference is virtually negligible. The same goes for the best amp sims out there.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  4. Ak3mi91

    Ak3mi91 Producer

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    Please tell me in which second there is a swap, and also which amp is the first and which one is the second:

     
  5. RMorgan

    RMorgan Rock Star

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    I'll bite. I like blind tests, although I think a 10 seconds clip is short for this kind of comparison.

    My guess is that it starts with Kemper and changes to Amp at about 7 seconds.

    Answer me via PM. Don't tell the results just yet. Let other have a shot too. It will be fun. :)
     
  6. metaller

    metaller Rock Star

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    First EQ doesn't matter much and it is subjective, you can EQ match two amps. It is the distortion that separates two guitar tones.
    For rock amp and distortion, the software is already there. It is the metal tone that is very hard to simulate.
    However, Kemper is very good compared to others. The problem is its price.

    Listen to the high-end distortion in the real amp. It has some nice, detailed and musical harmonics, punch, and bite to it. Kemper high end sounds cleaner. When you try to use those saturation plugins to add high-end distortion to software tone, it usually becomes noise and not musical.



    However, if you listen alone you won't notice it much:
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  7. Ikagura

    Ikagura Ultrasonic

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    I think the switch happens at around 6 seconds mark. First is the real amp and second is Kemper.
     
  8. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    I agree with you, but besides the marketing side there's another important factor.
    Dedicated hardware is always tens of times faster than any software. I'm not an expert but I doubt you can do a Kemper plugin with reasonable latency for the next 5 years at least.

    It's like modern hardware video encoders that can encode in real time to H264/H265 (not sure about H265) while even with a fast computer you can easily spend x4/x8 more time.

    We have Helix indeed, but as far as I know Kemper's are quite more complex.
     
  9. Zenarcist

    Zenarcist Audiosexual

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    Yes the price can be an obstacle, but you can find a good deal on a used model if you are patient. You also have to be a committed guitarist to make this kind of purchase, cos of the $$$ investment.

    On the positive side, there are many top quality professional profiles available, and you only need a single device to handle single coil, p90, humbucker & bass guitar. If you like recording, this is where a Kemper comes into it's own. You have a lot of different sound palettes to play with, that would cost a lot of money if you had to buy the real amps!

    It's also quite difficult to get a professional mic'd amp sound at home, due to the noise levels and room treatment, etc., plus the cost of the microphones is not cheap. Another benefit is I can happily record at 3am, and the neighbours don't even know that I own any guitars. You can also do this with VST amp sims, but the Kemper is a step up to my ears.

    Anyway, hopefully the price of this technology will come down in the future, and maybe they will release some playback only devices.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
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  10. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    :woot: Are you all kidding? It's visible in the vid! :yes:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  11. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Those audiophiles... always taking the hard path...
    Now seriously... cheater!!! :rofl:
     
  12. Pronto

    Pronto Kapellmeister

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    i might be wrong but from what i've learnt i get the impression you can never get it identical without moving air. (and how the valves react to this changing impedance as the speaker motor moves - a self-contained internally fedback system) .as in any simulation is just that..similarly with vinyl and its digital approximations...the physics itself follows two different paradigms.
    bear in mind, you're hearing these demos through a line in and not a miked cab which is what i guess the kemper was designed to do for computer recording.
     
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  13. Dimentagon

    Dimentagon Kapellmeister

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    I know which one I wanna Carry... thats all that matters to me now. Blind tests from a you tube video is like having a wank and talking yourself its your dream date... Seriously whatever works. The Kemper is a revolutionary product it doesn't replace anything..

    If you're after Versatility Kemper is king. If your're a one trick pony.. assemble a rig thats gonna make you big...

    Sometimes I wanna play a Les Paul over my Tele.. Sometimes its Sav Blanc,
    Sometimes it Ros'e. Sometimes its the fat chick sometimes skinny..
    Just fart or shit or get off the dunny FFS..

    As Zappa said.. Just shut up and play your guitar.
     
  14. robotboy

    robotboy Kapellmeister

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    The real amp has mojo; the fake amp doesn't?
     
  15. Ak3mi91

    Ak3mi91 Producer

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    I waited a little, so anyone interested could participate, but now is time for the big reveal:

    .
    .
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    It's 9 seconds of Kemper only (approximately 0:40 to 0:49 from the video).

    My point is, if you believe there will be a switch, you will hear it. And if you believe the real amp is superior - you will hear it as well.

    I remember when I was using Line 6 POD Farm 2.5... The difference between software and the real amp was clearly there, but nowadays? Buy either Helix, Kemper or Axe-Fx and you can have a great realistic tone. It all comes down to tweaking and if you can hear the noticeable difference between the real amp and software, someone fucked up his preset.

    In reality, the difference between two is so negligible that's there's no point in debating anymore and everyone should just ask themselves how do they like to shape their tone, and buy the most suitable solution. For example, I personally own a real amp, because I love the "amp in the room" feel and believe that the less is more. I used Helix for a while, though, and it was great.

    I think that we should stop acting like old geezers and accept the fact that the modeling technology has caught up with the real amps.
     
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  16. seriousofficial

    seriousofficial Kapellmeister

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    Classic this one!!! I hoped you would pull a thing like this and you did! Hits the nail on the head as far as being able to hear the difference between a tube amp and the profiled capture of that very same tube amp on an Axe FX or Kemper....you can't anymore. :rofl:
     
  17. RMorgan

    RMorgan Rock Star

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    Nice! I was expecting something like this as well.

    However, honestly, despite being vulnerable to suggestions and all sorts of cognitive biases, I can still hear the difference.

    I'm short on time right now, but I bet that if someone makes a comparison between the Kemper and Amp parts in the OP's video using a nice spectrum analyzer, there will be a difference in the mids and highs.

    Anyway, all major hardware amp sim have convincing videos comparing them to real amps (Zoom, Digitech, Kemper, AxeFX, Line6, etc...)...By experience, I can say that when you pick up your guitar and play through these sims, there's always something lacking.

    Man, I have a cheap analog Joyo American pedal which is supposed to emulate Fender amps, and it indeed sounds and feels much better than any amp sim I've ever played with, including Kemper and AxeFX...And it has a cabinet sim in the output, so it's just a matter of plugin it into your interface and you're done...And it's just a 32USD pedal...Cheaper than most plugins.

    I know Kemper and similar are a million times more flexible than analog stuff, but my point is, they're not there yet in terms of sound and feel.

    Certainly, eventually software sims will become indistinguishable from the real thing, but IMHO, it will take at least another decade to get there.

    Just my two cents. Cool thread.
     
  18. vaiman

    vaiman Platinum Record

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    People will always hear a difference...

    Chapman and Lee Anderton done and live A/B test... and couldn't tell any difference. But people on forums and YouTube can... go figure
     
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  19. RMorgan

    RMorgan Rock Star

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    Well, people have different ears, different environments, different monitors, etc...

    Besides, these guys are cool, but they're salesmen. You never know when a review is payed or not.
     
  20. vaiman

    vaiman Platinum Record

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    But there wasn't any difference. But still people heard something from a video over an experienced ear next to the actual unit. Even when they got it "right" they admitted they were guessing.

    I owned a Kemper for years. In an ideal world, would I have it over the profiled versions... nope. But would I rather hump heavy cabs and heads to gigs... nope.
    There's something you can't replace from having an actual piece of gear, it's inspiring, it's exciting. That can't be profiled even at 10%. But the sound has by a very very close margin.
     
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  21. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    The King is naked!!!
    But, hey, what do we the commoners know...
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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