1-4: They have studied and learned how music works to a level that the theory has become second nature to them. They can therefore unconsiously OR deliberately apply the best rule (choose the right trick in their bag of tricks) that gets the result the improviser wants.

But you are still off topic. Why don't you start your own thread about this?

 

The same than when you enter a conversation without prior knowledge of context.
You listen to other and if you think you actually might bring something to the table because you're an educated person with some taste, then shoot. This of course, doesn't apply to tasteless uneducated folks with no willing to improve over time (you know who you are)

The same way a child, or even an adult learning another language, goes from babbling and stuttering to fluently speaking. He goes to school, learn things, and is immersed in a speaking-friendly environment, with friends, family, TV etc.

They don't. There's no such thing.

No. Some are pure players (lagrene, garner...), some are theorists (mark levine, bert ligon...) , some are both (barry harris, George Russell)

 

Yes, but I still think the randomness plays the dominant role during the improvisation.

What should I name it? Randomly selected rules? and Introninja closes it on-the-fly?

Randomness is what I always bring to the table. Randomness has different levels. It's used in every part of music production but educated people think it's not randomness. They call it internalized nature or whatever.

I know lots of them but can't make interconnection between them. I think they're not jointed rules and their selections are almost being done randomly for the fragile justification not the exact reasoning. Is there such thing? The exact reasoning?

farao said almost the opposite.

What do you mean by the pure player? You mean they select the notes according to what?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2018

Trained players when improvising do the exact opposite of randomness, which is, semi-automatically picking notes according to accumulated knowledge and experience. When you have no experience and no knowledge at all, all you can do is "randomly" pick notes and hope it sounds allright. That may be why it seems random to you.

Apart from some very abstract essays, all music theories interconnect very well since music theory is just a specific form of math.
For instance there's no contradictory statements between common practice theory books and jazz theory books. Jazz only extends domains of knowledge (ie, the neapolitan chord becomes just another form of tritone substitution).

Pure player as in "self taught/made musicians", like Django or Errol Garner. Their education is made almost exclusively of listening and playing at a very young age when brain plasticity is at its maximum, which can be either a very good thing and sometimes a curse (notice how they all struggled to wander out of their "comfort zone").

 

Key Signature Chart



for producers out there, use above chart. Convert everything too Minors and transpose to the desired key.

 

HERE

HERE
IS THE SAME THING BUT EASIER.

FCGDAEBF#C#G#D#A#

To construct a major key start on any note move 1 tick to the left and 7 ticks forward.
to construct a minor key start on any note count 4 clicks to the left and 7 clicks forward
to construct a lydian key count 7 clicks forward.

 

Back to JAZZ 101


some more options dealing with melody in intervallic way ( to create feeling of more width openness)

 

One the best jazz standards ever!

Please listen and study the sound of this think about the info we have covered in this thread and let your mind naturally comprehend how this music was put together

https://www.jazzguitarlessons.net/body-and-soul.html

 

Last edited: Jun 11, 2018

In this "expanded" circle of fifths we have LYDIAN in Green, the dominant7th in purple in order to quickly identify information.

http://www.jazzstandards.com/compositions-0/bodyandsoul.MusicandLyricsAnalysis.htm

 

Last edited: Jun 11, 2018

Been visiting this thread since day one, it never got easy..

 

If there is something that is not clear to you, you could always ask questions. This is a forum after all.

 

JAZZ basics for Dummies ( mmj2017's version of course--
---------------

You begin with 12 tone equal temperament. ( 12 equal spaced notes) then they repeat over and over

These are these notes starting with C
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B

( a sharp note can also be called a flat so C# is Dflat, D# is Eflat, F# is Gflat, G# is Aflat, A# is Bflat)

this is our chromatic scale.
we can divide it in half like a zipper, grabbing every other note and collecting those notes into 2 scales.
this is our next scale called the whole tone scale.

C D E F# G# A#
and
C# D# F G A B

Now we can take the 2 whole tone scales to construct the major scale. the first one is called C major with zero sharps and flats.
WE take C D E from our first whole tone scale
WE take F G A B from our second whole tone scale.

this gives us C major KEY
C D E F G A B

we select every other note to create the chords which belong to it.

CEGB is Cmaj7
DFAC is Dmin7
EGBD is Emin7
FACE is Fmaj7
GBDF is G7
ACEG is Amin7
BDFA is Bmin7flat5

our 7 chords ( one for each note)
each have a associated mode as well. this gives us 3 components of a KEY

Note, Chord, MODE

I C -CEGB -CDEFGAB
ii D -DFAC -DEFGABC
iii E -EGBD -EFGABCD
IV F -FACE -FGABCDE
V G -GBDF -GABCDEF
vi A -ACEG -ABCDEFG
vii% B -BDFA -BCDEFGA


our 7 chords equal 2 functions. "HOME" (release)and "away from home"(tension)

(I=iii=vi) HOME
(ii=IV);(V=vii%)AWAY


Our 2 important chords are I(tonic) and Vdominant(the rest just represent these 2 as flavors)
we travel from tension to release


the most important chord is the Dominant chord
V or GBDF
4 of our chords are with unity with the dominant
GBDF
BDFA
DFAC
FACE

but only 3 are with TONIc
ACEG
CEGB
EGBD
-------------------------------



Our first progression is V to I
GBDF-CEGB
our second is ii, V ,I ( build up tension)
DFAC,GBDF,CEGB

we have the relative minor A min7 ACEG and mode is ABCDEFGA
we create a V to I EG#BD to ACEG ( we sharpen the G to get G# in order to have it be E7 instead of Emin7)
next we have the minor ii V I
BDFA,EG#BD,ACEG
ii, V I

 

JAZZ basics for Dummies Part II ( mmj2017's version of course--
---------------

Lets start off with our 3 main chords in jazz per KEY

iimin7, V7, Imaj7

in C major KEY

Dmin7, G7, Cmaj7

DFAC,GBDF,CEGB


----------------------------

We can use 9th chords as well ( more common)

Dmin9, G9, Cmaj9

DFACE,GBDFA,CEGBD

-----------------------
We can break each 9th chord into 3 triads which we can play.

for Dmin9 we have 3 triads to play over it. DFA Dmin, FAC Fmaj, ACE Amin
for G9 we have 3 triads we can play over it GBD Gmaj,BDF Bdim, DFA Dmin
for Cmaj9 we have 3 triads we can play over it CEG Cmaj, EGB Emin, GBD Gmaj

---------------------------------------------

Next we can look at our "chord equivalents" for C major KEY
--------------------------------------------------------------------

ACEG=CEGB=EGBD

This gives us 4 triads to play over it ACE Amin, CEG Cmaj, EGB Emin GBD Gmaj

----------------------------------------------
DFAC=FACE

DFA Dmin, FAC Fmaj, ACE Amin

GBDF=BDFA

GBD Gmaj,BDF Bdim, DFA Dmin FAC Fmaj, ACE Amin

 

JAZZ basics for Dummies Part III ( mmj2017's version of course--
---------------

In Jazz a KEY is a pretty small unit, because we only really expressing 2 possibilities Consonant ( Cmaj) and Dissonant (G7)
the rest of our chords and triads are just flavors of these 2. This holds true whether playing a melody or a chord progression.

V7 to Imaj7 or GBDF to CEGB as a chord change is identical to playing a 2 note melody of B to C, or F to E

In jazz , what ALL the instruments are playing "adds up" to be the whole music. that whole music is representing the chord chart or theory.
This means you have possibilities at all times to play sparse or dense depending what you want to express about yourself.

if you wanted to play minimalist V7 to Imaj7 you might play D down to B then long C note.

if you wanted to play more dense you can use a variety of "extras" like grace notes arpeggios mixed with scale tones and chromatics, and the variety of chord equivalents and possible triads. Finally you might connect patterns like pieces of a puzzle such as

vimin7,V7 to Imaj7, vii%min7flat5, iiimin7, iimin7 V7, Imaj7

These are your many diatonic options in one single KEY.
------------------------------------------------------------

Next, In Jazz a KEY is a small component in the larger structure of the music.

you have ALL of your possible substitutions available to extend beyond the single KEY.

It is uncommon for a jazz song to stay in the confines of a single key the whole time.

it is common to connect many KEYS in order to have a more three dimensional sound.
this is because a KEY is really an expression of a single note ( C in Cmajor KEY)

 

JAZZ basics for Dummies Part IV ( mmj2017's version of course--
---------------

Connecting "Legos" to build a structure
In this case our legos are notes.

Let's begin with G7 to Cmajor 7 tension to release.

what are the ways we can have a starting point of a single note, and connect to other notes to build melody and lines which outline our structure?

we can travel scale tones, arpeggios, and grace notes ( AKA embellishments which include "buttonhooks" (above then below then land on note)

we travel in these ways stepwise or leaps ,stepwise is semi tone or tone, leap is minor second all the way to octave and larger.
these are the factors involved in building lines or melodies.

also we can use octave displacement where we travel up or down an octave from the same note we are about to land on. say G F# (up octave to F) E D C B A G
---------------------

we have our structure of G7 GBDF to Cmaj7 CEGB

this is what our melody (and other instruments your playing with any moment, "add up" to be) in other words representation.

Next our bass outlines the roots of the structure.
our comping outlines the chords (if we have it )
our lead accentuates the 3rds and 7ths

We will keep it simple and play minimalist in isolation with no backing , so we can create our structure with 1 instrument, 1 note at a time.

Next we use a "swing" feel on 8th notes. ( triplet feel, except we have 2 notes 1 long one 1 short 1)

say our first note is F

then up to B

we can use a "buttonhook" around G by starting above on A then down to F# then land on G this gives us

F B A F# G

then up to B

F B A F# G B

Next a button hook around the D by going up to E down to C# then land on D this gives us

F B A F# G B E C# D

then up to F then up to long G



F B A F# G B E C# D F G

Next once the G rings out a bit

you can see that this last G which lands on the "on beat"

we can descend the G7 Bebo dom7 scale (added F# note on "off"beat)

G F# F E D C B A G

if we combine both, we get

F B A F# G B E C# D F G F# F E D C B A G

---------------------------

What we want to do is to get used to all the different ways we can make musical connections that outline a progression so that we can see all of our choices in the future and pick the one which bests expresses you in the moment.

 

Last edited: Jun 14, 2018

@MMJ2017 Would you please reanalyze these melodies, I did not understand the relationship between melody and the chords you are refering to.

Which of these notes are thirds of ii V I?

Which of these notes are 7th of V I?

Would you please reanalyze this melody and indicate which note refer to which interval in the chord?

The G D# G C# C is different from the original sequence you mentioned above (G and D# placement)

 

@foster911
1. Most of Jazz musicians know about harmonic structures, no need to have written sheets (not when it comes to play standards in particular, as it is a common language .. it is different when we play orchestrated music like in a big band for example) ;
2. There are not thousands different theories, and theory doesn't help when it comes to play music and improvise. Improvising has nothing to do with a random thing, we are not super computers, we are humans, we play what we feel and hear inside and mistakes may happen for sure but it doesn't matter actually ;
3. The best rule doesn't exist (read books about functionnal harmony, it is not that difficult really, there are many ones in AZ) ;
4. I don't know if Jazz musicians rationalize their selections the same way, it is a subjective question.

Theory is just a tool some of us have studied, playing music is another thing foster

Don't let anyone making fun of you, being curious and asking questions is a normal thing

 

hello friend.

for all your questions the examples are playing the end portion. or just the Imaj7 Cmaj7

the small melody example is playing just that portion.

for the last question
we are starting with a melody,
taking a portion of it in order to creating a pattern which can be looped
with that in miind--------------------------

Now lets focus in on a portion of this swing melody

G down to D# back up to G down to C# down to C

G D# G C# C

add another C# at end

G D# G C# C C#

now we can loop it

G D# G C# C C# G D# G C# C C# G D# G C# C C# G D# G C# C C#

lets move it up a whole step

so we started off with

G D# G C# C C#

move all notes up whole step

A F A D# D D#

A is root of Amin7 home
F is 7th of G7 away from home
A is home
D# is #5th of G7 away
D id 9th of Cmaj9 CEGBD
D# is #5th of G7 away

and now if we loop it

A F A D# D D# A F A D# D D# A F A D# D D# A F A D# D D#

NOW

we are going to take our original part

G D# G C# C C#

but clip off the ned part and keep the front

G D# G C#

connect to whole step up

A F A D#

connect to another wholestep up

B G B F

this is what we get

B G B F A F A D# G D# G C#

now repeat it!

and then we can take out some repetition

B G B F A D# G C# end on LONG C

Finally lets try this one.

C C# G D# A F B G long C
(just have the black notes high up than red)





---------------
Now lets try another one.

E C# C B C C# D D#

Now a second part to it.

G D# D C# C C# D D#

Now add them together

E C# C B C C# D D# G D# D C# C C# D D#


And a New section

A F E D# D D# E F

then a second part

B F E F# E F G F#

Now add them together

A F E D# D D# E F B F E F# E F G F#



now add together the 2 big parts to get this.


E C# C B C C# D D# G D# D C# C C# D D# (continue on..)
A F E D# D D# E F B F E F# E F G F#

 

Last edited: Jun 15, 2018