Issue with Slate/VerbSuite Classics Preset Menu (R2R Release)

Discussion in 'Software' started by Jes7, May 13, 2022.

  1. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    Hello everyone, I'm here right now making this post because I have a problem with Slate plugins preset menu in one specific project. (R2R Release)

    The thing is that I realized that when I try to use the preset menu for Verbsuite Classics in this specific project, the GUI is frozen, and I can't open the preset menu. When I click on the name of the current preset the menu doesn't show up, and when I try to open the preset options menu it freezes on the screen and I can't get rid of it until I close Live.

    [​IMG]

    The same thing happens with Eiosis EQ, except the Gui and the menu don't freeze.

    And the presets which normally show up on Fresh Air are also gone.

    There is no issue with the VMR plugin

    --

    In this project I have both audio and midi tracks. The plugins I'm using are:

    Kontakt
    Fabfilter Pro-Q 3
    XLN XO
    Addictive Drums
    Arturia Synths
    Valhalla plugins
    Neutron 3
    Ableton stock plugins

    And the Slate plugins I'm using are:
    Virtual Mix Rack
    Eiosis EQ
    Fresh Air
    Verbsuite Classics

    The DAW I'm using is Ableton Live 11.

    I've tried uninstalling all the plugins one by one to better understand what was happening. At first I thought it had to do with Fresh Air so I installed the TeamFuCK release but my project crashed everytime I tried to open it with that one. So I reinstalled the R2R release.

    So then I discovered that when I uninstalled VerbSuite Classics the problem was gone, I could see and use the presets for both Eiosis EQ and Fresh Air.
    So I tried reinstalling VBC, installing an older R2R release, and using VST2 instead of VST3, but nothing works, everytime I open the project the preset menu and gui for VerbSuite Classic, Eiosis, and Fresh Air bugs .

    I've also tried to replicate this issue on a new project, using Slate plugins only, I loaded every plugin from them that I had but I can't replicate it. It doesn't bug in a new project. Somehow this happens with this specific project only and it really annoys me.

    Is this a release issue? Are these plugins clashing with eachother or something like that? It has nothing to do with the IR path because I've also changed it many times thinking that could be causing it, but it isn't.

    Any idea?
     
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  3. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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  4. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    Hi, I’m using Windows 11 64bit and Laptop GTX 2080 Max-Q.

    All Slate plugins I’m using are VST3
     
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  5. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Now that everything is working, it is difficult to identify the error in your old project.
    I would replace the Slate - VerbSuite with FabFilter R3 on the old project.
     
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  6. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    Yes this is the most practical solution, but this bugs me, like I don’t understand why it’s happening, it’s so weird.

    I saw the link you posted before but I’m not sure if it has to do with what’s happening here. Oh and I realized that the GUI for VerbSuite works but the meters don’t move, and the presets don’t show.

    It’s so weirdly specific lol

    Oh and thank you for taking the time to help me with this
     
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  7. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    The link was all about Slate probably not delivering the best software.
    I'm also very skeptical about the company. I'm more of a Waves, Brainworks and FabFilter fan.

    Sometimes there are multiple parties involved, like Windows updates, graphics card updates, and just software updates.
    So that is not so easy to trace today, which updates you have made.
    For example, some software manufacturers fix a problem and with the next Windows update the problem is back.
     
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  8. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    Ok so after a lot of googling I found this

    https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=262753

    And this is what the guy from Image-Line support answers:

    SO I got rid of the 3 Pigments instances that I had in the project, and the problem was """fixed""".

    Is there any way to make this work without having to get rid of Pigments? What is this registry limit thing that this guy is talking about?
     
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  9. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    It's like I suspected Slate is not such a great company. Support is bad and the products are sometimes poor.

    The Image Line user did a "downgrade" and everything worked again. The freezing was gone. That means it was just a version of Verbsuite. The limited registry thing is something I've never heard of and is complete nonsense in my opinion. Be careful and do not believe everything. It will only create new problems.

    In my opinion you should copy the values of Verbsuite you have set in your old project. Track 1 values enter - Track 2 values enter. etc. then you should install the new working Verbsuite and then use that, the values then transfer and then also save as a preset (FXP) in Verbsuite and then save the whole project again.
     
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  10. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    Thank you for your advice and I like the fxp idea although it's not the best thing for my workflow.

    And I think I'm not explaining this right.

    When I talk about a new project, I mean a completely new, different project. That's when VBC works without any problems. Now, if I copy everything that I had in the original project, except for the Pigments instances, then VBC works how it's supposed to work. All of this applies to all releases. VST2 and VST3.

    In other words I think the plugin is clashing with other plugins, which in this case is Pigments. The moment I remove all 3 instances of Pigments and reopen the project the problem is gone.

    Anyways, I'm just going to use another plugin just to get rid of this. But I think it may be interesting to know what exactly is that's causing this.
     
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  11. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    I rather think that your CPU has reached your limits and then something freezes.
    You could open your task manager sometime and then load the project in question. Maybe take a screenshot of the values in the task manager. Convultion reverbs are known to be very CPU intensive, so the load on the CPU is always very high.

    Arturia - Pigments - Windows - System Requirements
    • Win 8.1+ (64bit)
    • 4 GB RAM
    • 4 cores CPU, 3.4 GHz (4.0 GHz Turbo-boost)
    • 3GB free hard disk space
    • OpenGL 2.0 compatible GPU
    www.arturia.com/store/analog-classics/pigments
     
  12. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    These are my specs:

    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9750H
    32 GB RAM
    Geforce GTX 2080 Max-Q
    Live and all my plugins are installed in a 512 GB internal SSD with plenty of space

    Here are the screenshots:

    Idle:
    [​IMG]

    Verse:
    [​IMG]

    Climax (this was for like half a second, it's usually less than that):
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Thanks for the expressive images, 60% CPU!!!

    I have installed an older version of Verbsuite. I have an instance in Studio One with 10%, however I have an extra graphics card (GPU) that takes the load off the CPU. What we see is that pigments are a real resource hog.

    2022-05-14_124654.jpg

    4 instances of Pigments and all Insert FX all with Verbsuite = Result 27 % CPU.
    My System: Win10 - 64 Bit - AMD FX 8350 4.0 GHz - 16 GB RAM
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  14. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    Is that too much? I mean it says 39.5% with a total of 60%, I'm not sure what the difference is.

    Anyways, as you said, this probably has to do with Slate, because I have had much heavier projects and I've never seen something like this happen before. All of my other plugins are working fine. Even Virtual Mix Rack (RET) is working fine!

    Oh, Also, I realized one of the instances of Pigments that was in the project was inactive, I wasn't using it so I just deleted that track and after reopening Live, VBC started working again. But then, I restarted Live and the problem was there again.

    I guess it's all just Slate's fault, I just saw this in the latest VMR release

    Maybe it has something to do with it? I don't know anymore and as I said before I've never seen this happen with any other plugin I've ever used. Sure I may be using a lot of cpu but this literally never happens and has never happened, never.

    So I guess I'll just give up and maybe try again later with a newer release or something. I'll just use another plugin.

    Thank you so so much for your time and guidance BEAT16, I appreciate it very much.

    Oh and I'm not sure if this is off topic, but do you know if its possible to do that on Ableton?

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  15. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Whenever a plugin is added, the CPU consumption increases, if you now add VerbSuite, your CPU may go through the roof and your plugin freezes, because most convolution reverbs are very CPU intensive, some are real CPU eaters. Also depends on the selected room. So the CPU needs air upwards to calculate the high peaks can occur and you see only after the PC calculated the 60% but in reality were much higher.

    Here is another explanation from a professional journal:
    There’s no doubt that convolution reverb sounds fantastic and is clearly the future of all reverbs. Unfortunately, convolution reverbs based on implulse responses are still very CPU intensive. That will hopefully change somewhere down the road, but for now, if you hear dropouts or other unusual artifacts when playing audio back using a convolution reverb, it may be that your computer’s CPU simply isn’t up to the task.
    Your VerbSuite does not work: Another possibility was that the manufacturer has not done his job properly. However, you have noticed that with the last update Slate Digital has fixed some of these bugs. Therefore, you can actually continue to use VerbSuite.
    Maybe I didn't get the gist of your question, the GPU is yes the graphics card and you can read the value, as you posted above, in the task manager, that is the value on the far right (GPU), so all plugins that is very graphics intensive will then be processed by the GPU and so you unload your CPU. Since you do not need to set it all works automatically.

    If not already done, optimize your PC: Ableton - Optimizing Windows for Audio
    https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209071469-Optimizing-Windows-for-Audio
     
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  16. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    Thanks a lot for your explanation.

    The plugin still """works""", I can hear the reverb, it's just the GUI that's freezing, which makes it unusuable if I want to change presets or IRs, and yes of course I can continue to use it but why would I use something unreliable? That's why I wanted to fix it because I thought it was a reliable plugin, easy to use, easy to understand, good looking, great sound, to me at least. But if it's going to bug and also bug other plugins when it does then why would I even bother?

    I'll just replace it and wait to see if a newer release has this problems fixed because yeah I know that conv reverbs can be CPU heavy but as I told you before I've had heavier projects in which not a single plugin (including LiquidSonic's Seventh Heaven, the same IR manufacturer) has bugged liked this. They are still usable. Some plugins may get laggy but they don't get to this point.

    I also thought that since this was also impacting other Slate plugins it could be related to the crack or just the manufacturer, as you said.

    And thanks for the link, I checked everything, even LatencyMon, and everything's fine. Live 11 has always been a bit heavy on the cpu anyways, at least heavier than S1.
     
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  17. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Hi @Jes7, great that you checked all and also named an alternative to VerbSuite.

    Here you can find the VSC 1.0.8.3 - Release Notes:
    https://slatedigital.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000803907-VSC-1-0-8-3-Release-Notes
    There are a lot of bugs in it, Slate has no beta testers but wants to earn money. I would not buy it.
     
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  18. Jes7

    Jes7 Newbie

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    Thank you so much BEAT16

    I've learned a lot from this hahah
     
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