Is this RAM some kind of ¨Super RAM¨?

Discussion in 'PC' started by Mixtic, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Mixtic

    Mixtic Member

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    So, I have been struggling making a build to create some Orchestral music, and I just need something that can run decent enough to have maybe 20-25 instruments with little to no latency issues (In kontakt). I heard from one of my very educated friends that this would be more then enough. Originally he sent me a different build than I do now, but then he sent me this:

    CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor
    CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler
    Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Taichi ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
    Memory: Corsair - Dominator Platinum SE 32GB
    Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
    Storage: Western Digital - BLACK SERIES 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
    Audio Interface: Steinberg Ur22MkII

    I noticed the biggest difference in specs was how the RAM size diminished from 64 to 32, so I asked him about it, and he said that it was just really really fast RAM. Now, I don´t know jack about how computers work, but if someone could shed some light on this, that would mean a lot. I don´t want to spend money on something that is not enough.
    Here is the Website to read more about it, if you don´t have knowledge on this specific RAM: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Memor...12661062&Link_name=Corsair+US+Product+Catalog

    Thanks!
     
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  3. saltwater

    saltwater Rock Star

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    you could just continue in your other thread, there is no need for a new one but ok.

    from corsair:

    "It’s designed with a heat-treated top bar and black side plates to provide a special hot rod finish to your system."
    combined with RGB lights this will certainly improve your latency.:winker:

    /irony off

    this memory is made for overclocking, imo totally wrong choice with i7 8700.
    and this will not improve latency over a normal kit, this isn't even such an "amazing" memory kit in the first place.

    latency is bottlenecked by the cpu anyway

    the system looks good now
    for the i7 8700 you don't need a dedicated cooler at all, this is a 65w TDP non over-clockable cpu that runs at 3,2 Ghz
    no effort needed to cool this one silently, the included cooler will do it fine.

    if you get the i5 8600k or i7 8700k, then the cooler makes sense.
    even without overclocking the 8600k has faster single core integer + higher base clock speeds,
    resulting in way better latency/DAW performance.

    and with it you can go into 5Ghz fairly easy.
    now thats night and day difference to the 8700 capped at 3,2 Ghz.
    combined with the faster integer of the 8600k this cpu has close to double the performance of the 8700 in terms of latency.
    because base single clock is what matters.

    either i7 8700k or 8600k just makes more sense than a 8700.


    from what i understand what you need, i would recommend

    i5 8600k
    16 GB from any known vendor

    this saves a lot of money you can invest in
    - a good silent case with air filters that can be removed and cleaned.
    - a good silent PSU with some headroom for overclocking/more memory/gpu
    - good case fans

    this system will perform better for less money and stay silent all the time.
    if you later need more, you can nearly double your performance by overclocking.
    or add another 16 GB of the same kit, or even sell yours and get 64 GB, thats the max for that system.
     
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  4. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    I think this pretty much sums it up.

    I'm not updated with modern computer parts but I wouldn't go for OCing in a new rig. Unless you wanna start OCing, that is. You would need a different CPU for that.
     
  5. Mixtic

    Mixtic Member

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    Thank you for making me wary, may ask why I would need a different CPU?
     
  6. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    There are CPUs designed for OCing, more expensive. You may want to do some homework, googling you'll get the gist of it quickly.
     
  7. Mixtic

    Mixtic Member

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    Thanks guys!
     
  8. Mixtic

    Mixtic Member

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    Thank you for your input! I do intend on overclocking this build or whatever I end up building (And by me I mean my friend who is more versed in all this) , my friend is also providing me with a case good case. I think I really just need to take my time with this, and save up, because I just want something that will last me for at least a year or two haha. And yah I know I should of just posted this in the thread, but I am pretty new to everything aside from expression in music haha.
     
  9. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Simply put, you don't need a 3200mhz ram with such fast cas latency. As the guys said, yes, this ram is made for overclocking and i mean it fits nowhere in your build, your cpu of choice is not even an unlocked cpu. Unlocked cpus from Intel either come with a K or an X at the end of the description. Something like this will do the same job, won't break the bank and you will never notice a difference:
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232413
    You 'll be much better spending another 50 dlrs/euros, buying a 8700k instead of the 8700 (much higher clock and higher turbo boost), still saving 100dlrs from your current selection, rather than this -meaningless to you-expensive ram.
    This is just an example, anything up to 300-320 dlrs maximum for 32 gb around 3000mhz will be suitable for your current build. And be sure its 2x16gb not 4x8gb, so you 'll have 2 ram slots on the mobo left for future upgrade.
    The only people who are reported to frequently notice a difference in ram cas latency, are very young pro gamers in competitive fast action games be it MOBA or shooter games etc etc. , where even a fraction of a sec makes difference. In my experience, even the most seasoned drummers cannot distinguish the latency when it falls under 2 ms. And of course, with the ram i posted for instance and the Dominator Platinum SE you posted which costs about 50% more at the same frequency, we 're talking 1-2 nanoseconds difference, with a nanosecond being 1/1mil of a sec, this means 1 nanosecond is 1000 times smaller than 1 milisecond, so you 'd be just fine with it.
    Finally i will give you a final warning to not rush your buy. The new Intel series is coming out around next month. For what it's worth there will be a ton more options to choose from and more importantly the current series will fall at least 15-20% in price and this is only initially, it will gradually keep falling 'till it's discontinued.
    Cheers
    PS: The 8700K is easily overclockable. But even if you don't do anything on this direction, just the higher clock and ability to turbo boost all cores with one click (which pretty much is a mild automatic oc) are enough to consider it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  10. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Platinum Record

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    i5 8600K has only 6 threads and the i7 8700 12 threads.
    I have the i7 8700 and it is powerful,I can now run big projects.I can add more and more plugins,it never has any problems with a latency on my soundcard of 128 samples.
    You can listen who ever you want,no pronlem for me,but the i7 8700 is a very good cpu.
    With my system I have only inconvenience with autosaves on big projects which take 1 or 2 seconds with Kontakt and Cypher2,but I think it is because I have my kontakt libraries on a HD and not on a SSD,or because I have too slow RAM 2133MHZ.
    In some months I will change my motherboard for a Z370 and faster RAM.
     
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  11. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    I agree, assuming you're talking about the one core performance. It's always good to have a higher one, but in a complex DAW session you end using all the cores with very reasonable efficiency.

    Then it's a whole different topic in the Mobo, CPU and RAM (not so much) sections. And OCing is a whole "science" on its own. You need to dig quite a lot. What is sure is you need to get an OCed designed CPU (intel Ks and equivalents).
    I was reluctant during many years of liquid-cooling, but I'd really go for it today, there are very simple and effective solutions. And your PC doesn't end like a damn helicopter like mine :rofl:

    Edited: and careful with the PSU too
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  12. TW

    TW Rock Star

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    With the current price drop of AMD CPUs you might save some money with a ryzen now.
    I know, I know ... single vs multicore performance. But If you compare a i5 8600 (6 Cores, 6 Threads) and let's say a ryzen 7 1800x (8 Cores, 16 Threads) both ~230 bucks, you get round about 10% more single core performance with the I5 but 60% more multicore performance with the ryzen.

    Don't buy modding/overclocker ram. Not necessary like mentioned.
     
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  13. saltwater

    saltwater Rock Star

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    well, theres always the next thing around the corner, if @Mixtic plans to get the i7 8700k, waiting is a good idea.

    the next i7 (9700k) goes up to 8 cores then, no multithreading, making it a good choice for a daw,
    possibly dethroning the 8600k as the sweet spot, small price increase over 8700k expected, well worth it tho.
    watercooling is probably a must with oc there.

    the i5 (9600k) stays at 6 with a tiny increase of base clock, memory speed, probably same price as 8600k.

    then theres the i9 9900k pretty much the same as i7 9700k but with 16 threads, not worth it tbh.

    (this all has to be confirmed still)

    @SquareDjay

    don't get me wrong, the 8700 is a capable cpu, its the best choice if you have a lower grade Mainboard.
    besides faster rendering times, multithreading is useless in a DAW, its not worth the extra money.

    the i5 performs way better for less money and does not struggle if you run hefty projects
    meaning if you go close to the limits of the 8700 and something is using multithreading, you will end up with crackles,
    forcing you to increase buffer size.
    this will not happen on the i5, it can run at 99% on all cores without any crackles.
    this is already the case without overclocking, with oc its another world.

    some just deactivate multithreading on the i7 to have better daw performance,
    i guess this cpu is already that capable that you will never hit any of this walls.
     
  14. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    I'll definitely go for a medium-end AMD CPU in my next build, unless things change a lot.
     
  15. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Are you talking about logical cores or physical ones? Because the physical ones work usually great with the proper software.
     
  16. saltwater

    saltwater Rock Star

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    the 60% are true but not in a DAW, the numbers there are somewhat around 25% / 30% still significant,
    but over 1 Ghz difference in single core if oc.

    still a good choice as-well, but single core power is still the "thing", and will remain it for a long time.

    logical cores is what multithreading is, they suck in realtime performance but rock in rendering processes.

    high physical core base clock is the bread and butter.
     
  17. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Platinum Record

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    Do you really think that multithreading is a bad thing for DAWs?
    Have you experienced that?
    I don't say you mean non sense,I just want to learn.
     
  18. TW

    TW Rock Star

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    I use an intel in my none internet Studio only Pc. Makes sense for me to get every little bit of single core speed i can get. But it really depends. If you don`t build a hardcore recording machine and you are running even small things like your network adapter, some other small programs in the background you 'll probably have an overall advantage with more cores and threads over the pure single core performance.
     
  19. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Platinum Record

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    In a 64bit DAW, 64GB RAM will always be better than 32GB RAM, unless the speed of the 64GB is drastically different or it's dodgy.
    As for the clocking and other stuff - everyone else has answered most of it.
     
  20. celtic3342

    celtic3342 Audiosexual

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    When you work with Kontakt mainly, you must take a look to the RAM used by every library. HZP piano goes to 1.7 GB and Emotional cello to 0.9 GB. That DDR4 RAM you show simply works at 3.2 Ghz, a high frequency. There is not a "Super RAM". Simply it depends of the RAM used by every library. I´m working now in an orchestral project actually stable on 12.5 GB RAM under 32 tracks. But I can´t record all MIDi part in one way. If you work with synths, no problem, but orchestral instruments waste all RAM they want. Good idea to use 32 GB, not 16. I have no more projects like this. If I had, I´d buy other 32 GB modules. And you can purge samples or bouncing parts already recorded under MIDI before recording next part.
    I have only an i7 5820 5th generation. Sincerely, talking about i5, o7 or Rayzen, CPU is not the most important for working with DAWs. Fast drives and a good amount of RAM.
     
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  21. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Hyperthreading doesn't mean twice the speed and not even close to a 60% better performance yield from the i5 8600k to a Ryzen 1800x. It has two slower cores more and AMD;s equivalent of HT, but due to AMD's architecture those cores communicate slower than within a current Intel cpu. A 30-35% in multithreaded situations (with a few exceptions) should be the real world value for the Ryzen 1800x over the 8600k. Clock for clock the i5 will still be faster so if a user is doing a lot of soft synth work it makes sense to go with the fastest Intel their money can buy and even OC. I still like the AMD Ryzen & Threadripper platforms though, as they offer the best bang for buck.
    The whole HT implementation is software based not real cpu cores. This doesn't mean that it is useless on the other hand. Users should consider hyperthread enabled cpus vs their counterparts without HT to be about 20-25% faster (in clock for clock comparison and the same cpu with HT enabled and disabled), sometimes 25-30% depending on the application. DAWs are not really mature in how they handle each newly created thread, but they are getting there. Users who benefit the max from multi-threading are video editors, render farms etc. Daw users should consider the benefit to be a 20% overall better performance.
    Would this justify a 50 dlrs price difference from a i5 8600k to a i7 8700 and about 90 dlrs to a i7 8700k?
    The answer is yes it does, any modern daw will take advantage of HT, just don't expect more performance than what i reported.
    Yes but, with the exception that a lot of computer based musicians are producing some kind of electronic genre, and if you base your DAW creations on soft synths, this makes the cpu the most crucial part of your build. Faster cpu = more Serum instances, more Divas and so on...
    If you work mostly with sampled based instruments like Kontakt or Falcon or Halion etc., then ram and fast library drives , i agree, they are a priority over a faster cpu.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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