Is there any "fake volume" information?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by Kuuhaku, May 12, 2020.

  1. Kuuhaku

    Kuuhaku Producer

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    Hi, since I started working with vocals I've noticed something: Sometimes when mixing a vocal, after eq compression and everything, when the only things that's missing is reverb and delay, SOMETIMES the mixer shows that the vocal is going over 0db and it doesnt sounds distorted and nothing like that, the vocal sounds really good, If I just drag the fader volume down it sounds quiet but If I put a limter at something like -3db or -6 and SOMETIMES even -9db it still sounding almost the same, without any really notable difference at all...
    Also, right now I was mixing a song and I noticed that the 808 (peaking at -3db) was distorting my open hats, that was at ONLY -9DB (but strangely the hi hats still sounding clean and vocals and everything else is clean asf) does someone know whats happening?
    Also, my master have only a soft clipper (I didn't master at all, I do almost everything on the mix using clipping at my favor, maybe this have some relation to the way I master? Idk)

     
  2. Satai

    Satai Rock Star

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    I reckon what you're seeing is the natural effect of non-linphase EQ and compression. It can dramatically change the waveform peaks in ways you can't predict. So what I'm talking about is, you have a signal peaking at -3db and you're happily working, decide to EQ it a little bit, get it done and now suddenly you're at +1db according to the meters but it sounds the exact same to you.

    That's the waveform being changed by the processing. The actual average volume did not change, but where the random peaks hit, did change. It doesn't mean you now have to only use lin-phase EQ, which has its own issues, that arguably are worse for vocals than some non-linear phase changes. Basically, if these jumps show up on the meter, it OK to ignore them instead of changing your mix with extra limiting. Every modern DAW has nearly infinite headroom on all the mixer channels, you can be at +24db and it will not clip - it's floating point. Only the master channel will clip when pushed, but you already have your limiter/clipper on there taking care of things. So you're all good!
     
  3. Kuuhaku

    Kuuhaku Producer

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    Can you explain me what is linnear phase?
     
  4. Satai

    Satai Rock Star

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    Best Answer
     
  5. Kuuhaku

    Kuuhaku Producer

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    Thanks bro <3
     
  6. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    Mid or side only, or left or right only processing also makes obvious stereo image/balance/pan effects when switching minimum/linear phase modes. More dB/oct, more obvious effect. Everything unfiltered in left, goes to right, and vice versa. Try high-cut or low-cut filters IIR/minimum/analog vs linear phase in EQuilibrium, for example.
    Minimum vs linear phase modes affects waveform, volume etc. Cut lows in minimum phase and your level meter shows it is louder, because phase changed. Linear phase has pre and post ringing. Minimum has post ringing and it is longer than post ringing in linear, but no pre ringing. For reversed sounds I use reversed minimum phase, pre ringing only. It is same as you do with minimum phase for unreversed-yet sound before reversing. Same effect. Logically.
     
  7. Producer

    Producer Platinum Record

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    Mixing is always done with ears. You try not to clip, but if it's clipping and sounds good to you, then it's ok. But if you are trying to find a way to measure the clipping signal, maybe you should try a meter that shows intersample clipping too. I think waves WLM does that. I can't recall anything else now although there are many. Also some limiters have this function. That will show you how much above 0db your signal goes. Then it's a mater of taste.
     
  8. SoundPorn

    SoundPorn Member

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    Because RMS is a better measurement of volume then peak information
     
  9. Nick12

    Nick12 Platinum Record

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    Linear phase equalizers are Instagram and Snapchat filters :)

    No, it's basically a filter where all the frequencies are going through with no phase shifts which means that all the frequencies can be processed with no further delay anymore.

    Although, that doesn't mean that linear phase equalizers are immediately better over regular equalizers. They all have their own benefits and disadvantages, and they both have their own situations where they could be useful for.
     
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