Hi,
I think as far as production goes, my biggest hurdle, or that which always annoys me the most while making a new track, is coming up with a good drum pattern and programming that. Now I know there's loops and midi files, but I would just like to understand rhythm and percussion more. When I listen to great tracks I often feel like there's such cool movement in the drums, and I can't wrap my head around it. Is there a good tutorial, book or post that goes into the details of what kind of percussion there is (kick, snare, closed/open hats, congas etc.), what exactly makes a good drum kit with elements that complement each other perfectly, and how they are exactly used in the creation of patterns. Like, for example, how would you use the high hats in combination with the kicks, and in what position of a typical bar would you place it for the most effectiveness, etc.? I know I can learn from other people's midi files and tracks, but I would just like to understand it on a deeper level.
I should also say that I hope to use this knowledge with other, more unconventional percussion sounds like metallic or found percussion. There have got to be principles that apply everywhere and that allow me to work with percussion in an adequate manner throughout. Thank you.

 

Last edited: Oct 2, 2020

Check out Evelyn Glennie, profoundly deaf percussionist, and step outside the box

Evelyn Glennie | Playing Around The Office | Part 1

While you're there, check out her other 'office' vids, plus vids on how she does it by using her whole body as a resonating chamber.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2020

If you want a starting point, program congas, bongos etc, in the spaces between the drums. While percussion will often play continuously through a 16 bar pattern, the emphasis will be off the downbeat. Also triplets will add life to a 4/4 beat. This is the simplest way I can map out my philosophy of percussion. It should be noted, I am not a percussionist.

 

@eldarktufa thank you for that, I think I've heard of her in the past, she's a wonderful musician, especially considering her circumstances. Love how she handles four mallets at once. The video would be a nice sample to listen to but won't give me any knowledge of the theory of rhythm unfortunately. But thank you.

@Lenny Belardo That's a nice idea, and it's this kind of info that I am looking for, what kind of drums traditionally belong in which position under which circumstance, etc.. Now I just need a whole book or course like this :p

 

I dont think there is principles to what you are talking about , and if there is it would get really complicated before you get to the music you like or want to make , a more simple approach is to actually listen to the music you like and try to understand why it works , you will find far more interesting stuff this way and the best thing is everything you will learn will be applicable with a solid example to always return to

 

I'd recommend that you get some sort of pad controller and tap out the rhythms.

I'm no drummer or percussionist but that helped me to create better perc tracks. Also it helped that the controller I picked up (Maschine) came with a lot of percussion-oriented kits.

 

I like this
The Drum Programming Handbook: The Complete Guide to Creating Great Rhythm Tracks (Handbook Series): The Complete Guide to Creating Great Rhythm Tracks: With Online Resource https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1480392871/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fab_zChEFbPCKWGAG

 

Buddy Rich Live At "The Muppet Show" (1980)

-you need to talk with the Band?
-B.R: who needs a band?

-oh!..no Band..Fantastic! just you and the drum kit!
-B.R: -who needs drums?

I could only share my approach, which is surely not academic at all...

I would start by dividing the percussion sounds into three voices (at start point) as if I were organizing a choir or as in an orchestra (bass, mids and treble / brass / metalic).
Giving a firm ground (groove) that serves as a base is basically achieved by maintaining a good "grammar" in the dialogues (good accentuation = tightness). First on Drums + Bass / desirable on everything else.
Consider it important too to pay attention to literally maintaining a fluid "dialogue" between the different percussion sounds, essentially to give it what is calling "life!"

Giovanni Hidalgo & Horacio 'El Negro' Hernandez - Traveling Through Time

 

Last edited: Oct 4, 2020

and leave the grid by using delay and all kinds of effects like stutters,shifters etc

 

Hey guys, thank you very much for your responses!
Yeah I tried listening to stuff but I always found myself puzzled as to why it actually sounds so good and why it works. I might try to listen to more stuff more carefully.

Great idea to use a pad controller, I don't have one yet. That thought never occured to me that it might make a difference. Will try it, thanks!

And the book sounds super interesting, might just be what I was looking for. Will give it a look, thank you!

Finkerell, that is such a great clip, had a smile the entire time, used to watch that as a kid, so funny! And yes that is good advice, this is the kind of stuff I'm looking for. A dialogue between voices like in a choir. Sounds great!

 

Curiously, I found this incredible documentation 2 days ago, I invite you to see it. ( ca.10 min.) I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Life has a rhythm, it moves constantly.
The word for rhythm (used by the Malinke tribes) is FOLI.
It's a word that is so much more than drumming, dancing, or sound.
It can be found in every day of life.
In this film you not only hear and feel rhythm, you see it too.
It's an extraordinary mix of picture and sound
feeds the senses and reminds us
how important it is.

 

I'm struggling with the same question really. What helped me a lot is asking drummers/percussionists to collaborate on my tracks. They come up with stuff that's really helpful and I can learn a lot from them.

 

welcome. well, you know a lot already and you aren´t alone, I think at first, that´s enought for whatever. should be clear that the brand "do yourself", "selfmade" or "Composed/playing by" is a path that requires time, open mind, zero arrogance, a lot of patience and LOVE for what you do...Grace and Fire you will find them later on the road I thought your questions initially went in a good direction... it´s and will be damn good question for many! To all the "pathfinders" out there, best wishes and good luck!

 

Last edited: Oct 9, 2020

With just like just about everything else it takes dedication and the willingness to put in the time to become proficient at creating rhythms by using percussion instruments, be they in they created with samples in the box or played by hand in the sunshine. I'm always banging on something anywhere I go, be it a bridge railing as I'm walking over our local river or purposely stepping in a puddle for the splashy sound on a rainy day, the hide if a big dog or a light pole lighting up the night. What I'm trying to say is, if you are focused on the goal of grooving out you will devote considerable focus on hearing rhythm from everywhere, be it from the sound of a noisy creaking door closing to the water rolling over the rocks in a small bubbling stream or cars hitting the potholes of some bumpy road. . Emulate what you hear and learn from your surroundings. Then do it again.

 

ha ha, from a professional drummer/percussionist's point of view, this is right up my alley...however, the knowledge and understanding you seek in some kind of shortcut is vast, just like any other instrument. For percussion, maybe even more so. You can spend years just studying afro/cuban rhythms, but don't forget other carribean percussion. Then there are South American styles like Brazilian samba, Columbian, and Indian Tabla and related drums and finger percussion is a lifelong journey by itself. What makes a good old fashioned drum set rock and sound like you just gotta dance or move? It's complicated. most rhythmic patterns and "beats" have an underlying pulse. It's commonly played on the high hat, but sometimes expressed in other ways-If you play straight 1/4 notes on the bass drum, it's called 4 on the floor... Most modern western music uses either an 8th note pulse or 1/4 note pulse. Swing music is based on what drummers call the spang a lang pattern. Shuffles are based on two notes of a triplet feel. I think you get my point by now. Most musicians spend hours of every day for years to begin to master their craft, and I use the term "master" loosely here. I have been playing and studying drums and percussion for 48 years, and I still don't consider myself a master. However, I may be one of the best drummers you never heard of, Ask Lois Lane...lol

 

Last edited: Oct 10, 2020

How long is a piece of string??

I usually like to contribute but the above open-ended question pretty much says it because it's also like that other cliche question "How deep is the ocean?" Lois Lane and Rhythmatist covered most of it.

Without sounding like a waste of time, the end result in your tune is does it sound good to you?
When it's being mixed, you have to like how it contributes to what you have written or done.
If it grooves, then the percussion also has to fit the groove. Even in a complex polyrhythmic structure where odd meters are being played against each other, often by many instruments, each of the instruments has a pattern/groove/syncopation they adhere to. So whatever you choose needs to fit and have some level of consistency.

EDIT: "Consistency" has one exception to its rule. If the intent is to either do completely improvised free music concerts whether classical improvised or 'free jazz' or if cacophony is the intent, then consistency has no application because there are no rules.

This is a VST promo but put that aside, check out the percussion.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2020

You need another fancy VST to achieve that PRO drum sound, we all know that