Is it clever to build a hackintosh in 2023 ?

Discussion in 'Mac / Hackintosh' started by aeroflot, Oct 29, 2022.

  1. starkid84

    starkid84 Producer

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    Yall both seem to be confused as to what the OP actually asked... He asked was "building a hackintosh" a good idea in 2023. He did not ask if buying a M1 equipped MAC was a good idea.

    My answer was in regards to 'OSX software' on modern PC hardware. I did not give my opinion on Apple Silicon hardware, as that is a different discussion.
     
  2. jazzzz

    jazzzz Platinum Record

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    Mac can also crash. I say this after 30 years having been using it. And I had hard drive damages as well. Luckily i was able to recover all data with a specific software and a weekend long process.
    But please don't create myths, macOS has also never been 100% stable. It has just been much less unstable than Wintel pc
     
  3. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    This is absolutely fair enough. However, now we have a specific software called Time Machine. Restoring my little 1tb or less internal SSD's takes a few hours max. Hardware fails. Time flies, Aeroplanes Crash. Pilot Whales wear dark sunglasses. Some things remain inevitable.
    PC faster than M1 for 700 bucks. 2022? No, 2023? Who knows. I will gleefully "Eat crow" if I am wrong, because I will just build one of them after you successfully beta test all this shit for us, for free.

    Match the spec directly of a M1. 700$. You don't need a witch. You need a miracle worker.
    if you did not have such amazing witches, this thread is laughable. With no r2r, you would all be flocking to macOS only as fast as Ableton users installing Cubase.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2022
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  4. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    The answer is still no. Is it worth sticking Mac OS on a PC you already have? Of course it is. Building a special PC to not run Logic and plugins Natively/ARM instead? A colossal waste of your time and your money.

    Does Windows no longer install Calc.exe by default? You shouldn't need an operating system born of Accounting! needs or your CPA to figure this out. The issue is not Windows tribalism, it is bad math. Running a VM of Windows, Metasploitable, whatever you want, is free. This is not true of the reverse (very easily). If you cannot stick a Windows NIST image inside a VM, you should find a less technical topic.

    p.s. OSX ended in 2016 or whatever. Confused? Is talking about a completely incorrect Operating System. Smoove Grooves is going to PM me on Sister Site for not correcting your mistake sooner. Sorry Smoov.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2022
  5. 5teezo

    5teezo Audiosexual

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    The only question to whether or not build a hackintosh in 2023 is: budget. If budget is an issue, you can build a pretty High End Desktop system with an older Xeon Server CPU with 20+ Cores and a X99 or X299 Mainboard which would still be more than sufficient for years to come thanks to OpenCore and OpenCore legacy patcher. For example: one could get a Broadwell Xeon with 18 cores for about 200 bucks (initial price was over 2.000 when it was new), an X99 Mainboard for around 150. Add RAM, PSU and a GPU and at the end you would have a killer system for under 1.000 $ that you can run as a MacPro7,1.

    Since the last intel-based iMac was released in 2020 (iMac20,1 and iMac20,2) which Apple has to support for at least 5 years my guess is X86 on macOS will be supported at least until end of 2025. After that you can still use it. There may will come a point whe plugin dev will stop releaseing updates.

    But if you have 9.000 $ to spare for a maxed out Mac Studio, then I'd say go ahead since the new m1 Ultra CPUs are pretty much unmatched in performance and efficieny.
     
  6. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    Current MacPro is still Intel Xenon Ws.

    If you build a MacPro analogue you'll get 8-10 years out of it since Apple Silicone chips for the MacPro are at least 2-3 years away and a MacPro duty cycle in generally assumed to be a bit longer.

    I've seen some MacPro used for CFD or render prototyping work sticker at well over 40K, I don't swim in that pond but that is definitely one where you don't release a chipset until the software to utilize it already exists. Either way it's all moot.

    If you are curious about building a Hackintosh it's easy to get HW for a Win(X) machine that will also run MacOS so you can dabble. If you are not interested then you can just revert to running a Win(X) box. If you want the most performance for your money while running MacOS it's hard to beat current Mac retail offerings.
     
  7. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    This is the problem entirely. There is no reason to "dabble". This will be an experiment in most people wasting their time and going back to windows because it is easier for them to do so. You cannot leave FL or something you have brought over from Windows on the system and learn Logic. It will not happen. The time and learning curve commitment will leave these experimenting people with a crutch.

    They won't learn how to use a Mac or Logic. They will just come back here and tell us our operating system sucks and run back to windows tail between legs. and you know it ;)
     
  8. Nightwalker

    Nightwalker Kapellmeister

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    im a video editor,since 2013 i started building hackintosh,when the M1 was release i stop building hackintosh,i spend lot of money building my hackintosh with expensive video cards and i was never happy with the exporting performance of my hackintosh,get the M1 and buy a fast external hard drive,right now my main M1 is the Mac Studio with 32 gbs and 512 HD,super powerful Mac.
     
  9. starkid84

    starkid84 Producer

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    Agreed. It seems whenever someone gives a non apple centric response, apple fans come in droves to ask why we are not worshiping the apple gods and their latest creation.

    Hackintosh's in 2022 not worth the hassle in my opinion, unless you have need logic. For anything else Virtual workstations are simple and more than enough to run OSX on PC hardware seamlessly.

    And yes Apple's M1 chips are cool and all, but the tech is still new, and I'm interested in what AMD and Intel's responses will be over the next few years before I concede that Apple has the game on lock.
     
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  10. Myfanwy

    Myfanwy Kapellmeister

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    No, that's not the case, not "seamlessly" as there are no macOS graphics drivers for any virtual machine. You "can" run macOS in a VM on Windows, but without any graphics acceleration at all, making the system nearly unusable.
     
  11. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

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    most hypervisors don't properly support asynchronous data transfers on usb controllers, which is a major limitation for any audio or midi interface functionality,
    also cpu scheduling is fairly limited and compromised when it comes to low latency critical tasks,
    to sum it up, Virtual workstations are absolutely terrible for any audio related work, except maybe Vienna Ensemble Pro or Audio Gridder plugin servers, which are still limited by their own buffers and don't do AD/DA audio processing at all
    :chilling:
     
  12. 5teezo

    5teezo Audiosexual

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    This is only true for products with M1 processors. In X86 Land, any Hackintosh desktop outperforms its Apple counterpart for not even half the price.

    Example 1: Laptop
    Apple MacBookPro10,1 with an i7 3720QM
    Price: 2800 $ new
    Single Core Score: 748
    Multicore Score: 2874
    Source: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/18497612

    Outperformed by my Lenovo T530 with an i7 3630QM which is a lower rated CPU.
    Price: 250 Euros used
    Single Core Score: 747
    Multicore Score: 2916
    Source: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/9553877

    Example 2: Desktop
    iMac 20,2 with an i9 109010
    Price: Around 3.000 $
    Single Core Score: 1239
    Multi Core Score: 9015
    Source: https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/imac-27-inch-retina-mid-2020

    Outperformed by my Desktop with an i9 10850K which costs about 2k less
    Single Core: 1329
    Multicore: 10748
    Source: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/5386949
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
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  13. Daskeladden

    Daskeladden Rock Star

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    Hackintosh make absolutely no sense in 2023.
     
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  14. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

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    phew I guess my old MBP 2014 (i7-4870HQ, price: whiskey bottle) isn't that terrible afterall: 915 / 3630 scores
    :chilling:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    That's true and that is the reason I will not even consider a new x86 Mac. They are just left overs from a dead era and even though I still use the ones I have they aren't in mind for any future purchases.

    My MacPro should be changed this year on my normal purchasing cycle.

    It is 4 going on 5 but I will not upgrade that machine until it has an Apple Silicon architecture M(x) build. I can wait an other two years or so as I am not really noticing a loss of productivity or I can go with a Mini Studio if I have a hardware failure and needs must.
     
  16. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

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    meanwhile Windows 11 22H2 is FUCKED :hahaha:

    "Windows 11 requires an internet connection to finish the initial setup (out-of-box experience (OOBE)) for the Home and Pro editions starting version 22H2, but there’s a way to bypass the requirement.

    Since Microsoft wants users to connect their computers with a Microsoft account, the company is making changes to the initial Windows 11 setup to make it nearly impossible to continue configuring a new device or clean installation without an internet connection.

    If the setup detects that the device doesn’t have a network connection, you will now land on the “Oops, you’ve lost internet connection” page. If you click the “Retry” button, you will get a prompt to connect to the internet.

    In older releases, you were able to easily skip this requirement and continue offline with a local account, but this will no longer be possible on Windows 11 22H2 and later. However, for those who may not have an internet connection at the time of the installation or want a more traditional offline experience, there is a workaround to bypass the requirement and finish configuring the out-of-box experience without an internet connection, whether you are setting up Windows 11 Pro or Windows 11 Home."

    :rofl:
     
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  17. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    That is the frustrating portion of Mac conversations with Windows users who wish to see some problem with macOS as justification to continue using it.
    The OS is my issue with it. You need to run one for about 6 months or more to see the difference in not having to reboot every 2 hours. Or days. Or even worse, installing some problematic device or just a junk driver. If you are smart, you will always get whatever you want to work somehow. The question is your time.

    it's exactly like you said in a prior post. it is a only decision about money and about hardware wether someone gets mileage out of a hackintosh. the nice configuration you described says 1000-ish; but we all know how anything like that works out in the greater scheme of things. Maybe it keeps up with an m1 for 300 bucks more. And Apple is just getting cooking with Silicon.
    They could come out with a new processor 10 times faster out of nowhere and smoke the rest of the market. It's a matter of what they wish to give us at this point in time because they are fast enough. They are prob developing M80 right now. bang.
     
  18. jazzzz

    jazzzz Platinum Record

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    There are always workarounds.
    The question is when.
    Look at what have happened with many plugins and software that were eventually cracked after so many years.
    The best workaround to install Windows offline though is to install Windows 10 and avoid 11 for some time.

    In case of hackintosh, the person needs to get precise and specific instructions about what parts to buy and how to do the installation. And later how to do updates. That can be a nerve-wrecking process. And the OP's question is therefore undersandable somehow: whether it's worth to do it with all the rapidly changing software and hardware environment.
     
  19. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    Usually when people ask these kinds of questions, it's because they are either needing help (and not some power user like people here can often be). Or it's because of money. Or they play guitar, and those people get a pass because they need amp sims and stuff like that.

    The real reason not to do this, to me is this one. By buying Mac computers, we are getting Logic for about 200$ USD. At the going rate of other software packages available, ala Steinberg, they could charge easily 2 times that. Then, I have been running Logic on my Mac the entire 5 year period that Apple is required to support it, technically and with their software.

    If they give me software from the Camel Audio guy such as Remix FX and Drum Machine Designer, and..... for 200$ when an EQ may cost this? You have to be joking. Oh, but Mac is expensive; well clearly it is not. They made the m1 faster than a mbp 2017 for 3 times less cost. With their own brand new ARM processor! Steinberg would have charged me about 4 time for Cubase updates by now. This is not sustainable. Even if they allow it to be used with less of an iron grip on seats for now, There is no way I would ever trust them with my stuff. If it was important to me. They probably are trying to force out smaller vendors or something nefarious for music like that.


    There is a reason I have 0 open complaints from any m1 users on here which remain unfixed, is because no-one has any real ones about their little minis. They are not running 150 stems with them. There are 2 models they have to test against or maybe 5 in a year. Troubleshooting these machines is a joke. They are technically all the same hardware and have been tested by a company worth 2 trillion dollars. Someone making some shit in their basement is wasting their time and definitely not mine. They design these machines to be manufactured by robots. IF by chance, so much as a spare screw hits the floor and alarm is triggered and shuts down an entire production line for 2 hours and pay technician money to fix instead of produce. DO you know how much a Apple Field Application Engineer like that might cost for those 2 hours not Assembling. Then QC must become involved to restart big production line of whatever variety?!.
    Very very expensive. Someone loses their job.

    Maybe you cannot figure out how to open it. Phone store has tool kits for cell phones. Plus, you won't ever need to open it anyway. Recycle it in 5 years and the new one will be 4 times as fast or more. :)

    in 2022 we discuss this? up to you, I have no agenda and no idea what we will get in 2023. But it will smoke whatever you build trying to catch up.

    Look at his system. Why waste time with a Mac when you have Fortnight on a 72 inch screen? I bet with that thing, you could pipe the output of crunch into pyrit with gpu, and run your entire village's WEP router in like 13 seconds from 6 miles away. with the pwnbone yagi dangling out the back with dice on it.

    Or you could boot to the other partition and get some music work done too!. lol.

    He is right! The reason a Hackintosh never can make sense, is because it has windows on it somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
  20. SirGigantor

    SirGigantor Member

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    The question you should ask yourself is WHY am I considering building a Hackintosh?

    One of the things that people tend to forget about Macs is that a lot of their reputation as good computers for music, movies, etc . . . . WAS well deserved around 20 years ago or so.

    IF you buy a high end one, then it will still be good. But the whole concept of them being extra good for those sorts of things is from the era when the used IBM chips, which are lower voltage and more stable than x86, and were the only readily available i.e. mass produced, computers with multiple cores.

    You used to actually have to have multiple processors on a special motherboard to make use of multiple cores. You could get that on Windows, but you typically had to build them yourself, whereas Apple made them ready to go out of the box. Now almost everything has multiple cores, so it's irrelevant.

    After that it's just a matter of Apple products integrating better with other Apple products, which is the case, but you will have far fewer different pieces of software available to you than if you had gone with Windows.

    Likewise, OS X is Unix based, but it's a version of Unix that is modified and has become gradually bloated an inefficient, i.e. has ceased to have the benefits of Unix.

    I bought a Macbook Pro around 2008-2009 and have never bothered with another Apple computer since then, it was the worst piece of hardware I have ever purchased, it was slow and unstable, which is the opposite of what Unix is supposed to be.

    The reputation of Apple computers as being distinct from Windows and better for certain things was true 20 or so years ago, now it's basically a matter of whether you prefer a closed system where things are designed to interlink, or if you prefer the aesthetic, or one particular workflow or some such thing.

    The real question is WHY do YOU think it's worth considering?
     
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