Hello guys.

I've been working on Windows PCs and Laptops pretty much all my life, however, I've always been tempted to swap as the iMac's retina display looks insanely good, and MacOS looks neat too. However is not a lie that Apple overcharges the shit out of its products, so I would like to have a perspective from the iMacs with M3 chips owners, having your opinion about the performance in Logic Pro and Ableton Live.

The iMac with M3 processor, 16gb of "Unified memory" (RAM), and512 GB SSD costs about 2300 Euros. It's a huge hit in the pocket taking into account these "low" specifications in RAM and SSD.

On another topic, is there a display monitor for a PC as good as the retina display?

 

Last edited: Jan 9, 2024

I own an M1 Pro Macbook Pro (16GB) and couldn't be more happy with the performance. Hard to bring it to the limit. For a Desktop Computer, i wouldn't spend much money on an internal drive, at least when i comes to apple price policy ;) get an additional external usb c drive and be happy with it. I don't see the point to store Samples or Libraries necessarily on the internal HDD. Keep it for System Resources like Plugins and your working projects. After they are done, move them away from the internal disk. Saves a lot money this way.
You can still save Samples in the Project Folder with Logic, in case you think the access is faster this way.

Can't compare the M1 Pro to the M3. Just can say the performance is great of the M Chips. I came from an Intel CPU Mac and the upgrade was much worth it.

 

Btw. have you checked the Apple Studio Display? You should be able to connect this with a PC too?

 

I have a Mac M1 as the primary workstation, a VEP hackintosh to house the sample libraries, and then a PC for additional Audio Gridder related plugins. The M1 has been terrific, and I got the base model with 8 GBs RAM and 256 GBs of internal memory. I've had RAM issues with music production probably once whilst using Acustica Audio plugins and some sample libraries, but I don't cram everything into one project these days. Since I got the entry level one I got a 1 TB NVMe drive with a Thunderbolt 4 caddy and it's blazingly fast. It's easy to set up the boot drive to be external.

Overall, imho you can potentially save money with Mac in this case, as the cost of running it is low compared to CISC equivalents, and at only $599 or whatever it is it's not that much. It's also nice to have a modular set up, and you only need one screen these days because of Mac Screen Sharing and TeamViewer etc.

 

better go with a mac mini

 

I thought this way too at one point - but it IS a bit of a hassle. Software tends to be quite large these days (multiple gigabytes). 512GB goes in an instant. And you’re constantly juggling multiple external hard drives etc. If you do any media, Photoshop/AE/Premiere need their scratch disks on the internal drive. Some plugins prefer their libraries on the internal drive, etc etc.

I’m also still on an Intel MBP (16”), but also considering the M3 iMac for home.

In terms of computers, always buy a bit ”over your budget”, meaning: save up so you can buy what you truly would want. For instance here: I would buy it with the best processor, max memory and at least the 2TB SSD. Then you’re looking at at least 3000 EUR, but it’s still less than a new M3 MBP.

 

You surely should look into the used software. With USB C i don't see much disadvantages in comparsion to an internal Drive in an older machine and it also worked this way If you don't have the money or just don't wanna spend it, its a good option instead of buy nothing and keep your old shit

For my MBP i chose 1TB, but only because i like to work on the road sometimes and have to have samples and a few needed plugin libraries on the internal disc. Every stuff i only use a few times, is on externals in the studio. Haven't missed any of them in 1.5 years now to be honest.

Everyone here is like a bit of a collector too, but sometimes you also have to make the cut and focus what you really need. You don't help the performance on your system, when you load it with every bullshit that's available! Also i only install AU Plugs for Logic and if im forced to install all formats, i clean them out afterwards. Saves a good amount of GB.

As Altair only talked about Music production a 512 GB HDD should work imo, but 1TB would be more safe.

 

From macrummors, https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...racks-benchmark-on-their-m2-m3.2351440/page-2, this is a benchmark, with the number of tracks
M1 PRO go around 181 tracks
And more benchmark comparisson here https://music-prod.com/logic-pro-benchmarks/

The screen of apple is an 5k, if you want 27 inch you should go for the apple display (1599 $), the closest is LG 27" 5K UHD UltraFine™ IPS Monitor. LG is the partner of apple on screens, so may the closest in quality. and close in prize too 1299 $

For music production desktop I would recommend a hackintosh for his modularity (multi-OS system with windows + macos + linux), or a mac mini at a good prize (is silent too). Have in mind, intel support from apple is gonna drop soon or later (aprox in 3 or 4 more years from now) and go full ARM design on software. All depends on your budget.

For Logic and Ableton look this video and pay atention about the uses of p-cores and e-cores, Will this change on future with new software releases?

In case you want a laptop, macbook pro m1 pro should be a good sweet spot, also in second hand market would be nice if you find one with more ram and hard drive capabilities.

 

Last edited: Jan 9, 2024

Your main concern seems to be a retina display??? lol.

 

Why? It's rather important, especially for people with less than perfect eyesight.

 

to put it bluntly, current iMac screen is too small for any meaningful work, so it's waste of money for sure,
IF there was 28-30" iMac then it would be worth considering,
but given the fact iMac doesn't even use Pro or Max chip, you'd get better value by buying MacMini or MacStudio, and separate display (which you could also upgrade later)

 

waste of money. you can get a much larger monitor for way less money. If you are not doing graphic design, color correction, printing, video editing, or any of that other stuff; an expensive Mac monitor adds nothing to your music production machine. Zero.

Anything miniaturized and self-contained will always be more expensive for tech items. Under 30" is annoying to use for your DAW, unless you do not use many plugins. Constantly jockeying around plugin interfaces gets old very quickly; especially if you are adjusting 2 or more plugins settings at once. You can spend $1000 more on a monitor, and Logic is not going to look any nicer.

 

Again, your particular set of likes/dislikes is not universal, it's not common to all humanity. We all perceive things differently, and it's all good.

If a 24" 4.5k retina display (absolutely gorgeous, by the way) is an obstacle to any meaningful work, and waste of money, how can any work at all be done on smaller screens? Like those on a laptop, for example. Surely nobody does any meaningful work on a laptop.

Let me tell you something shocking: 27", let alone 28-30" or more, is simply too much for many people and many tasks. Too much light, eye strain, fatigue... Despite the attraction, the productivity drops. Depending on the distance, 24" is often the sweet spot.

By the way, to keep the discussion constructive, please list separate displays of comparable quality to the Apple retina ones.

 

My mbp is 15" retina and other than for short time frames, using Logic on it is pretty frustrating. it's ok if you are traveling, but it's pretty rough using it for Logic. You run out of real estate too quickly. It's perfect for "normal laptop uses", but an arc stand to hold it and an external monitor are way better.

 

Of course it's way better. But you don't need 28" or more to be able to do any meaningful work.

 

i have no problems at all working on a 14 inch mbp (which is currently also hooked up to my tv for youtube etc). this thing has a great feature that integrates into several programs called zoom, it let's you see a tiny part of the timeline really big so no need for a massive screen, sure it might take 1 or 2 extra clicks but i dont think anybody has ever kept count of the total amount of clicks they do daily.

not being able to work on a screen smaller than 27inch is what we call a luxury problem. although it is a well known fact that it was a living hell back in the atari days and nobody got any work done at all, that's why computer based music didnt exist before the 21th century. people simply couldnt write anything on those screens that were basically 1 square cm of a 30 inch screen at 8k nowadays.

 

I would also prefer a Mini or a MacBook combined with a desktop display that fits your work space over an iMac.

Display and speaker setup should last much longer than any PC or Mac, so why exchange the display every 5 years? Would you buy new speakers every 5 years just because they are part of the PC/Mac?

I use a 27" display with an i7 12700K Windows 10 machine and a MacBook Air M1. What I really like about the Air is the ability to connect/disconnect just one cable and have the identical system in the studio or on the road.

While working on the 13" screen is possible, it is just a compromise, like 14" or 16" displays or laptops at all. For me it's important to have a comfortable setup with decent speakers and in my case a display about 27" size to work for hours without getting pain in the back or neck.

 

It's not a luxury to be comfortable in your workspace with no eye strain; and certainly not when a 30"+ monitor is like ~$200. If you are working at a "producer" desk, with a shelf, that means your computer either has to fit on the keyboard tray, or it cannot be front and center because you are probably going to have your keyboard controller or some synth sitting there. Your monitor is going to be 3 feet away from you.

At least when you go with a Macbook/Pro you have portability. If you get a "desktop" Mac, a nice big screen is very cheap. With an iMac you get a expensive screen, maybe equivalent CPU/ram specs as the laptop, and no portability at all. There is 0 upside to an iMac for music, instead of the other Mac options. In fact, the only other producers who will tell you to get an iMac already have one of them.

 

well it is my opinion, not some absolute truth/fact,
we're here at forum afterall

24" 4.5 Retina has "effective workspace resolution" (or however you'd call it) 2240x1260 - which is a little more than standard 1080p but already fairly less than 1440p - being able to fit more toolbars, view more tracks in arrange or mix view or MIDI arrangement, staff etc... is a good thing - intentionally buying small display in 2024 has no advantages imo, of course Retina and HiDPI screens look sharper and nicer without a doubt, but for audio work it's not important - which I'd call a waste of money,

for me, productivity already drops when going back to 27" 1440p because I already got used to ultrawide 34" 1440p, but I'm fairly confident I wouldn't meaningfully utilize bigger screen or more pixel space,

sure distance does matter, as well as resolution, eyesight, light conditions etc.. I'd agree having huge TVs (40"+) are bad both staring closely or glaring at distance, neck strain is relevant as well, eye strain and fatigue is also very affected by proper screen brightness in relation to surrounding light conditions (which change throughout the day too) for ex.,

speaking of laptops, yes I consider them a very mediocre compromise, and it's not a coincidence vast majority of laptop desk setups use 1-3 additional monitors with MacBook often sitting aside with lid closed - in regard to what you said previously, I could totally agree having too high resolution on smaller laptop screen, although attractive on paper, would be actually worse for productivity (as an example notice most 15"-16" 1080) Windows laptops having 125% or 150% scaling set by default),

Apple sells Studio 5K display, pricey but they have it as an excuse not to sell 5K iMac M3,
aftermarket 5120x2880 monitors are rare, LG UltraFine and Samsung ViewFinity come to my mind, not much cheaper than Apple's 5K offering,

when sticking to standard 100% scaling (non-Retina, non-HiDPI) then ultrawide 3440x1440 monitors have become quite affordable nowadays, even something like fancy Alienware AW3423DWF (34" 165Hz QD-OLED) might be better value in certain usecases

 

I totally forgot to mention, because I'm so used to this! My 27" display is mounted on an arm "floating" just a few centimeters above my trusty 61 keys Roland master keyboard. Computer keyboard and mouse are in front of the master keyboard, that's the way I have set up my "producing" desk for more that 20 years now, impossible with an iMac or other AIO PC. My weighted 88 keys keyboard is placed to the left side for playing or composing, also with a display above it, but this display is mostly turned off so it's no distraction while playing.

Having a comfy work space is the main aim for me to be productive, I also never liked those "pull-out" keyboard drawers below the desktop. So having a light weight display on a movable arm is just perfect for me, 27" makes it easy to place between near field monitors. Everything else comes after that.