Interesting trick for mic'ing guitars.

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by dragonhill, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    All we needed is a cheap mixer.

    Apparently the story towards the end reveals it should be called the Dimebag Darrell method.


    I might order this Fredman technique mic clip for my ' super low volume closet setup ' .
     
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  3. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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  4. metaller

    metaller Platinum Record

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    shit! I just have an SM57.:deep_facepalm: I should record 4 times if I wanna make this sound.
    In my experience, using the blanket for the mic might be really important. I remember adjusting the gate for long time to remove the room sound reflections.
    The method that I recently used on my last song, was recording the solid state output into the audio interface. I got pretty decent tone without irritating neighbors.
     
  5. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    I've done that myself. Try running those "direct off the amp" tracks through some sort of cabinet emulation (IR's or Nebula Kalthallen Cabs). I think you'll like the tone even more.

    I want to try this with 2 57's. I had good results using a 57 and a ribbon mic and blending the two as well. You have to be very particular about placement and phase cancellation though.
    I've got several cheap mixers, but in all likelihood would try routing it through tube preamps instead.
     
  6. metaller

    metaller Platinum Record

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    My amp output has some kind of cabinet simulation built in. I have not tried any IR on that. I would test. :wink:
     
  7. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    Ah. Didn't realize. I've got Marshall Mode IV which has direct out, but there's no cabinet emulation. It sounds really good after running through a cab sim.
    Not quite as good as mic'd loud though. :metal:
     
  8. Voo

    Voo Producer

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    So funny I have one of those mixers in my closet
     
  9. Adamdog

    Adamdog Platinum Record

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    I salute the dragonS in this thread!

    I ve seen this guy before on Youtube cool guy, now I'm not into metal but into rock-hard rock for sure, just looking for totally different tones. Are big producers really using Behringer pres? It sounds controversial to me.
    Leaving those Api pres switched off is a real crime. Modern metal and lo fi technique... I don't know. Weird.
    That's just my impression, I don't want to confute anybody. Don't take it for a nasty comment please.
    Blending mics on an analog mixer is very interesting, I must admit, to print a good guitar image.
    If someone is interested I could send some pic of: guitars, stomp boxes, mics and micing, amplifiers, pres, compressors, mixers and Jacuzzi tubes. LoL
    but in private, I don't feel like being crucified in pubblic.
     
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  10. Riot7

    Riot7 Producer

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    To me the old behringer pre-amps do not sound special or un-special in any way. They just sound like pre-amps. But that's just me and I haven't done side-by-side testing.

    I don't really get what the trick in this videos are. Using two mics to record a guitar cab? Personally I tend to think using a 57 as your main mic just makes you sound like everyone else. Also I don't think you should just watch a video about how to place your mic. Especially when using multiple mics. Use your ears.

    But yeah, you will probably get a very similar tone using these tools and methods without too much hassle.
     
  11. TheMountain

    TheMountain Member

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    I have Printed my own from here https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1892545
    The only issue I had was finding a fatter mic clip to hold it at the bottom.
    I also used the older behringer 802 with it as shown in another video from that channel.
    He's a very tricksies hobbitses that guy.
     
  12. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    I haven't purchased a cheap summing mixer yet but I really like this Fredman Studio Mic Technique even at extremely low recording volumes in my closet. @metaller you might want to get that second 57.

    apparently.... he names a few in this video along with the originator Dimebag Darrell who brought his own Mackie 4ch mixer.

    @digitaldragon Does the ART have summing of outputs?

    @TheMountain Isn't weight also an issue with two mics and cables on a wimpy stand?
     
  13. superliquidsunshine

    superliquidsunshine Audiosexual

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    The cable should be guided along and tied to the boom arm and at least at one place on the stalk to take the weight off of the end of the boom to keep it from sagging. Reusable plastic ties work really well. The weight of SM57s isn't much, and even a cheap stand should hold them. And try to keep the boom as short as possible. If for some reason the boom needs to be extended fairly far, you can put a sandbag on the leg that wants to come off the ground.

    Yup.
     
  14. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    2x SM57 mics is the most classic approach and always yields very good to great results. Done it literally 100s of times. I do have the Audix D2 as well and have tried it but i prefer the 2x SM57. A strange test i did a dozen years ago, that made a cool difference when recording metal gtrs , is adding to the 2x57's a solid state condenser up front but a little far from the speaker, so it acted somewhere in-between a room mic and a front mic. I used a Neumann U87 for this and that third channel made an exciting, sharp, high end difference when added in the mix. I use a MesaBoogie mkIV amp for over 20 years now and sometimes Marshalls too.
    If you have access to a good solid state mic, try it, you may find the third channel addition to your liking.
    All the best mate :)
     
  15. superliquidsunshine

    superliquidsunshine Audiosexual

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    @taskforce .. oh how I miss my Mark IV head, the absolutely sweetest amp I ever owned.
     
  16. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Brother, i 've been through some very rough times, thnk goodness i was able to hold on to my mark IV.
    I'm really sorry you don't have yours anymore.
    I'd be lying if i said my mk4 was used in more than 8 maybe 10 different projects the past 5-6 years and it's a pity. Too many times i thought of selling it, the only thing that kept holding me back was the question if i ever needed a great amp again, what i would replace it with.
    Every-fucking-one who plays gtr on commercial pop/rock projects wants to plug into Guitar Rig or Amplitube etc, and get on with it as fast as possible. The whole thing reached a point in the studio when i was honestly offering the same price for amps' (i also have a couple of Marshalls and a Fender Twin Rev) usage/mic setup/ and pinpointing settings and still very few people appreciatted it.
    What can i say man. Signs of the times.
    All the best :)
     
  17. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    @dragonhill, no summing with the ART.
    I could use my Mackie DFX-12 or another cheap Yamaha board I have for this, I suppose. I'd guess the cheap board is to lo-fi the sound a bit, and I'm running mic'd guitar tracks through the R2R Wollensak Nebula preset to get that in the box. Likely I'd resort to summing them in the box.

    @taskforce, I have used a solid state condenser as well, backed off a bit. I don't have anything as nice as a U87 though. Best warmth I've gotten is using that ribbon. I back it off as well. Likely during my next reamping session, I'll try that in combination with this 2 57's approach, and just grab three takes per track this way. Then I can use whichever one's contribute to the mix the best.
     
  18. superliquidsunshine

    superliquidsunshine Audiosexual

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    @taskforce .. Yea, keep it if you can. And yea, I guess that I understand wanting to get on with it as soon as possible, but they can also do that with the amps you have at your disposal. Knowing what sound they are looking for combined with your deep understanding of your amps and your suggestion of what to use, they are ignorant of the beauty of using the real thing. Pity.
     
  19. Death Thash Doom

    Death Thash Doom Platinum Record

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    Before ITB was as it is, I had to depend on a few IBP boxes by little labs along with painstaking amounts of diddling, To the point of madness.
    Nowadays it is child's play in comparison thankfully!

    Voxengo's PHA-979 enables the phase on everything to be dialled in just how you want/need it to be.
    I use quite a few microphones on a speaker cab, a trio of different dynamic models, a classic, older style ribbon, a modern, active ribbon and then sometimes I'll have a 414 or similar up also but not as close then I love Me some boundary layer (or pressure zone depending on a few brands, Same thing) mics which I try on practically everything.

    I can get quite a lot of EQ work done with the phase relationship between each microphone to the others and the level. Now I usually whittle it down to around three which I end up using in the mix plus I run a selection of bits and bobs that can deliver a result which is a lot like a mic'd up cab, The main ones being Rivera RockCrusher Recording, Two Notes TORPEDO Live and C.A.B., Radial's JDX and most recent and essentially a mini but just as powerful Two-Notes TORPEDO C.A.B. being a Mooer RADAR, Well I got two of them so that I could use a stereo setup and for the price and quality it just was a no brainer to grab two, Dead simple to use including loading in your own impulses (which I have done with ease and if I can manage it then anyone can! lol), If you think a micro sized stompbox that includes impulse loading/processing, mic modelling/can also use microhpone impulses in the mic block with valve power amplifier simulation of the usual suspect power amp valves along with an EQ block that can run in graphic mode tuned for guitar, graphic mode tuned for base or a 4-band fully user adjustable parametric equalizer with high and low pass filters also IIRC then take a look:
    http://www.mooeraudio.com/?product/201709227917.html
    I'm not joking when I say it is on par with the Two-Notes TORPEDO C.A.B. except it does not come with an equivalent of the Two-Notes Wall of Sound plugin, It also doesn't feature the compressor and exciter that the C.A.B. does but for the price difference IMextremelyHumleHO it is a steal, I have one now for anytime I have a guitar with me, One of the RADAR pedals and a decent amp-in-a-box type pedal/preamp and you have an extremely portable, Top notch guitar setup, No laptop or tablet/smartphone required :)
    For example I've been running it with a Diezel VH4-2 pedal, Seymour Duncan Paladium Gain Stage pedal, Bogner Uberschall pedal and an MXR EVH 5150 pedal among others and with a pair of proper headphones on, reference monitors or piped into a PA it sounds crushing and really does not sound like a a few small little boxes! FWIW.

    That Glen is quite a character, I 've seen him rub people the wrong way so many times and it is hilarious, The madder they rage the harder he goes in the paint. Usually He is correct though anyway and if it's a subjective matter, I tend to agree with his findings via my own experiences, The T-Shirts alone set of the sort that are easily triggered haha

    All the best, I'll be checking out those mic clips for specific Swedish sounds. Got numerous options that'd function as a summing mixer including a Behringer option or two of course. Cheers

    Dean
     
  20. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    @Death Thash Doom, that Radar pedal looks interesting. Very configurable which is something I've always felt my Hughes & Kettner Red Box was lacking. Only plus to the Red Box is that it'll take a speaker level output and give you a DI for the board for those amps which are lacking line out (ahem, Orange!)
    I suppose this thing is more-so for amp replacement as it emulates power amps as well.
    Don't know about recording with the Red Box, honestly haven't tested that. Might have to include that in future re-amping sessions. Good call on the PHA-979 for phase aligning the different mic takes. I've used that before, just not for that particular application.
     
  21. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest


    three mics aligned
     
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