we can also give some examples for inspiration.. it is necessary to find new ideas or techniques.
i'm into EDM for some years now, so i can better tell about that industrial /dark influence into this scene than elsewhere. there are a lot of point of views on industrial music, this is only one or two sides of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_qqBMheZ5g
slowly, destructured beat, distortion everywhere.. made for underground dance scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5olq3S8yVaE
white noise and hypnotising hats, kicks sounding like heartbeat, dubby vocals, etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22wZp0lkJ28
disturbing melody into that dubby track.. this artist has some incredible drumkicks in his livesets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgOGbZFh3KA
that kind of track is excellent between two more danceable track, by creating this kind of noises you add that dark side of industrial music into a live performance.

all the artists i posted above are techno djs /producers with inspiration from industrial rock bands from 80-90s.. now DAWs allow to mix every electronic genres together, so this noisy industrial inspiration fits perfectly for EDM.
i also like and produce industrial hardcore (160-250 bpm) but i doubt this is what you want to do. this subgenre has the most distorded drumkicks you can find, so it can be something to try.

 

I'd also like to say that "distorted" doesn't necessarily mean clipping... It's a tricky part. Another trick is to play some more with frequencies. Try these:
- Put bass in rear, highs in center
- Bass/Low-Mids-Mids in center, Highs rear
- Phase (not 180 - well, at least if it's the same sound) your rear and make it dance with the center - Picture the center as a viewer and the rear like chicks shaking their ass left and right (some auto-panning could help there too) (Well, even cancellation can work but more sparingly)
("Frequency Panning" - It's a bit weird but stretch the norms a bit)

- Put volume automation to follow the rear or center (on each one respectrively)

Here, I used the same drums:
http://www.putlocker.com/file/45B2FE1821F6AC1B

Despite the fact that it's somehow separated it sounds fuller. Not quite there but I feel it's going somewhere.

Center: Steep slope lowpass, -1db at 16,6kHz, slight chorusing (it actually sounds clearer, believe it or not), Slight compression to balance it some more (kick-snare), Baxxpander, BitterSweet again
Rear: Got the center, high passed it (100% left at 335hz, with normal/gentler slope - 100% right at ~150hz, -6,53db), high-shelf gain at 12,4kHz on both, +1,76db, 0,7Q - Modulator @ 454hz on Right/Crusher (10% mixed) on Left, Moderately heavy Flanging

If anyone feels like making their own examples, I'd like to hear what you come up with. *yes*

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee520/AI_Joe/note_freq.png
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
http://www.paleotechnologist.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Musical-Note-Frequencies.jpg

(Percussion, Breathy/'Distorted' Vocal, Distorted Synth Leads, Be warned: it's really random crap, haha)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8jOhqOsouM

 

nice, this thread as grown alot ,

Thanks WNz , Catalyst , Fox , crazydiamond487, useful Info
Catalyst, WNz , you got it

by "Harsh Reverb" i meant; a dark ; large deep hall with long decay time (long tails) with a cut-off in the hi freq range, and a high diffusion setting (increasing the echo density), then distorting the reverb
(or using distortion before the reverb depending in the sonic qualities of the sound\instrument, for me it´s subjective),
all of this, resulting in an obvious change in the character of the sound\instrument.

i also like to abuse in reversed reberbs.

alot of people defines harsh sound (there are many defenitions) as being distorted , but for me distortion is very pleasant,
as you said , damn you braindead mainstream masses,

@Catalyst

get some multiband distortion units (ex Quadrafuzz, there are many others), then you can choose in wich frequency ranges the distortion sounds better for you, i usually dont distort sub-bass, but that just me..
as you say, things work in contrast, so when you have some heavy distorted things with reverb try to get some other stuff with clean reverb but with different sizes and echo density

well, in chaos there is some order

that is true , but practice is the key, get to know the equipment (some level of sampling and editing, reverbs, distorion , delays, bitcrushing, and all of that great gear that was suggested by WNz) even if it is the basics, that´s what i think, you have to get your "hands-on-making noise" *yes*

here are some great tutorials, that it will help you, and some attention should be paid regarding this subject

.
Electronic Music Production Workshop it has 6 parts

i share a similar modus operandi, and i usually take a cheap portable stereo recorder to get some nice sounds.

i also struggle with that, i simply rely in what FOX said in point 4 and 5

4. All sounds have a fundamental pitch, including percussion, and you can find it by looking at a spectrograph where it's usually the highest-peaking frequency (in percussion, I believe), or sometimes with a pitch-detecting plugin if it has a more audible pitch.

5. Consequently, if you're using lots of noise sounds and you do want your music to have rhythm or pitch, you'll probably have to write the songs around the pitches and rhythms of your noises.

i totaly agree with that.

set some time for "mixing sessions" to be creative in sound design and experiment,

but set some time for "mixing sessions" to make decisions of what instruments sounds,textures, to include in the song, or the creation of the "structure" of the song, so you will keep focus and not all over the place.

@WNz

i share the same thoughts

and i have to say that this quote that you posted before is really nice
------
Creating Industrial Drums written by Michael Arthur Holloway
thanks for this Catalyst,
-------
to finish just want to add some more info on gear

reverbs tha you can easily get that dark sound
Valhalla, 2CAudio - Aether
IK Multimedia Classik Studio Reverb
also some nice free IR from classic gear
distortion and alike
Audio Damage Kombinat, Ohmforce Ohmicide, Predatohm DC2013
Izotope Trash, D16 Group Devastor, mda Bandisto, de la Mancha Urban Decay, Distortion M Plus
Multiband Bitcrusher I, Melda MMultiBandDistortion, MMultiBandSaturator

also East West "The Dark Side" has ready made sounds for industrial music, but is expensive.

@WNz

for now i will be processing this information and i will be creating a short song, so Catalyst can ear what can be done with all this tools once you have basic knowledge (probably he knows already)
and if you or anyone wants to add something to the song i will be glad.

 

What I always liked about the genre is its non-particularity. It can sound atmospheric, it can sound like a film soundtrack, it can sound like a dance track, or a rock/metal track. Yes, there are some "rules" one can more or less follow regarding sounds and production, but I chose that genre because it's the one that you have the most freedom in to do pretty much whatever you like to do, and experiment with the sound. I also love it because that genre was always traditionally more into rebel-anarchy-revolution type of lyrics, trying to convey some kind of a message to the people, not just singing about romance. Personally I find love lyrics absolutely boring, but once in a while there comes a love song that strikes an accord with me. Well anyway, I love this "genre" because I can enjoy experimenting with sounds, putting them through various FX and so on, and convey my moral and political views through some hopefully clever lyrics and messages. I love all that.

Since I'm an atheist, a vegan/vegetarian, an animal rights activist, and a communist, "Venus Project" supporter, you can imagine I've got a lot to say to the people, other than just "I love her but she doesn't love me back" in 666 ways.

For me, a track usually happens like this: I tinker, I fiddle, I tinker, I fiddle... "hey! this is fabulous! let's see what we can do with it. 8)" And I usually make lyrics when I'm more or less drunk. It works for me. It always worked for me for some reason. Maybe because I get even more emotional when I'm drunk, and I do get more philosophical. So I make the lyrics separately from the track, usually. But often it just happens that you "hear" the track inside your head while writing down the lyrics. I don't drink a lot, though. I've always been a "weekend drinker", and I must say a binge drinker. Kinda like when I drink - I drink ffs! ;)

But I never use any kind of substances except coffee and *some* nicotine when I make music [no time to smoke... too involved]. Long time ago I discovered that using pot and alcohol really leads me nowhere while I make music. Beer makes me sing easier, and it loosens me up, though. I don't like beer, but I found it helps me to sing. Not too cold, not too warm, just the right temperature, light, and tasty beer, and a cigarette if I'm going for a more raspy type of voice, which I often do. ;) Singing is like acting. You have to be unwound, and into "the role". You have to do your best to put all the emotions you want to convey with the lyrics into your singing. Well, that's how I see it and how I do it anyway. It also helps to record a few takes, usually three, one after another, then combine the best parts. However, if you manage to get one take to sound good, that's even better.

I also have a stupid custom of lighting up a fat, rolled cigarette, when the track or a project is finished, and listening to the track from beginning to the end while smoking it and sipping beer or wine. A sort of celebration of mine.

These are some more or less "practical" advices I laid down for you... Well, what works for me. It's an excellent thread, and everything that anybody needs to know has already been said. I rarely use samples, I mostly make my own samples and loops. I never ever use melodic loops, especially vocal ones... I just try to make everything myself, as much as I can. Yeah, it is a bit harder, but it's also so much more fun, and the results are different from the mainstream bands that use commercial loops and samples, and it sounds a bit more recognisable and unique, I think... At least you can say "I made this, from scratch, all on my own". I like that feeling, and it can save you a lot of money. It's better to buy a recorder and go visit some factories and interesting sounding places yourself for that money. ;)

Oh, and nobody mentioned Nick Crow's VST plugins. Lovely sounding shit. And Ignite Amp's, Heptode, and Distorque VST plugins also. All very nice sounding distortion FX. They're the reason I rarely use hardware these days.

http://nickcrowlab.blogspot.com/

http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins

http://www.heptode.com/vst_plugins.html

https://sites.google.com/site/distorque/home/vsts

Cheers!

 

@ Me2audio

That's a good one about the multiband plug-ins. Another method is to do all that on a bus (either with the multi or normal plug-ins along with filtering, blending, etc.). You can also try auto-tuning your percussions/drums. It can make it more tonal or more glitchy. It can also be interesting for wind instruments (some detune simulation or 'harder', noisier, more amateurish, inattentive playing), noisy pads and metals.

Another plug: http://luxonix.com/home/en/lfx.html (It's also on those drums I posted), Anechoic Room Simulator, PanCake2, Pan-Oh!-Rama, Tremolos, Vibratos, Noise Synths/Generators

@ SineWave
Those are good. I actually have The Anvil. And the tape stuff I mentioned gets along well with tubes, vintage, vinyl, saturation.

Yeah, sampling is not only limited to sample libraries, it's good to stress that. Bang some pots or hit your couch for some nice percussion fx. A door sqeaking or banging. A clock ticking. Rape a string instrument if you have and can (and want). Then mangle it (some more). Just about anything and everything.

 

WNz
I didn't take offense in the slightest my friend, I was just thinking out loud. You have been so helpful with everything that there is no way that I could possibly have anything but gratitude. I guess I am just of the opinion to efficiently break the rules of a system you have to know what they are first. I'm also a very logical person and I think that gets in my way here where you need to just feel. Maybe I've forgotten what that's like.

More responses to come...check back later.

 

Alright, alright, alright, let's talk INDUSTRIAL!!!


kudos to everyone discussing in this thread, so far all advice had been great, but i feel the technical talk is going cross purpose.


As was said before, the term "industrial music" is indeed very broad, hard to encapsulate into one style or genre, so i will refer to it as instead an emotional expression of discontent, apathy, fear, isolation, anger and resentment. Gothic Industrial also nets the "wanting to have sex with corpses" aspect ... (lol)

Nobody can agree on what industrial is, was, or should be. Granted most scenes are like that, but it seems industrial music fans take pride in developing their own list of what constitutes industrial.


Catalyst nailed it when he referred to Industrial as ANTI-MUSIC- i have always seen it much like punk rock, an organized middle finger to the status quo. Its about FEELING the contempt for whatever you hate, its about PROTESTING against the policies you rage against, against the people you oppose, the birds you hate, the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches you so utterly despise.


Reach deep down inside you and pull up the demons you have been trained by society to repress, the black tar sludge of the soul, the yang to the yin, the darkness that swallows the light.

abandon all hope, ye who enter here


So shed the trappings of music theory, banish the 4x4 demons and set yourself free to experiment and get a bit dissonant.

synths through distortion pedals fuzzboxes, sampling from movies, frequency mangling, heavily manipulated vocals, distorted drum kicks are all staple "industrial" sounds, but even those are stereotypes (awesome stereotypes, true, but stereotypes nonetheless) Just like with ANYTHING, knowing the history of industrial is key so you can analyze what has come before so as to better create something new. (it seems most people on this thread have a great understanding of the history of industrial)

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” said a crusty british dude once. (lol)

That being said, I think the underlying ethic behind "industrial", broadly speaking, is to do the unexpected. Take instrument A and try to turn it into instrument B. Effect things not usually effected. Distort things not normally distorted. Surprise us. Use a tape machines vst to record some rhythm tracks at normal speed, then slow the tape down and tune your guitar/melody/synth down to compensate. then record guitar/synth parts at slow speed, then raise the tape speed back up. Drop a crazy Arpeggiator on a main synth line. plug a fuzz or "metal" distortion straight into the board. (Be careful) Make some ambient layers of straight white or pink noise. In many cases this noise is "pitched" or "timed" in reference to the song..

early industrial music often reflected post industrial soundscapes, repurposing noise as music, and this is still a valid approach in my eyes..

 

Frito it's so great to have you back man.

You are the true spirit of Industrial and your response really illustrates why you are an indispensable member of this community as well as planet earth.

 

@ frito

Yesh, that was a good synopsis of the gearsluts thread. Music is not just tonalities. It's rhythm, feelings and more. Actually, it's music if you think it is. Silence is not sound but it's felt. ...And heard. (Maybe you're being sarcastic by quoting it but anyway, the critique is not directed towards you)

Ofc, it also holds truth in it. You added some other good stuff it says but I decided to keep the elements we could expand on and not waste time on debating that won't really end with a ...definite definition, neither sparkle any creativity. Some good info is provided but all the debating pretty much ruined it for me while scrolling through it.

That's better. But you can't be told what to express. Maybe you just like the technicalities/type of sounds. I'd rather take away what it's supposed to represent (or take the good aspects) and utilise it into a personal expression. Sticking to the raw technicalities can actually make it more personal for whoever decides to follow/use it or take it in and not be preoccupied with an acolyte mentality of what it's supposed to be or express. I know what I personally make of it, so I don't really care about the rest. Art always holds an intention of the creator but how it translates to others is a different matter. If you take out the subjectivity it's just a bunch of sounds and possibilities. The creator just puts them in a certain order and colors them with thoughts, expression and expectations. And it's also about how much you want to conform/stick to rules and guidelines (especially on creativity issues).

...But those I can't really debate or reject.

 

Few weeks ago i asked Alraun about industrial music because i though he was playing this kind of music and i wanted to listen/know anything about it, but i was mistaken. Now here's this thread with all kind of explanations, links and so on. So, my deep gratitude goes not only to Catalyst for starting the thread, but also to all the contributors (specially WNz and frito zanzibar: thanks a lot for spending some of your time and effort trying to help us with your knowlege!).

Definetively, this has become a great comunity! *yes*
And Catalyst, you're one of the main causes for this to happen right now. So, thanks for the good job!
Now it's time to continue reading/learning about industrial music.

 

Pin it !

@ Frito is back!

 

I would also highly recommend people to become skilful with the solder, and modify shit, and make your own FX, or unusual MIDI controllers.

It's highly fun and addictive. I want your soooooul! Like Richard James would say.

Really, and it can make you very creative, too. Make your own guitar pedal for a start, or a ladder filter/distortion pedal. ;P I have to admit that it's easy for me because I've been into electronics and repairing my own and others' synths just for fun for decades, and it's so rewarding. I will never regret becoming an electrical engineer. It helps me with so much music related things, and in time you get your own ideas of how something should work, you combine things, and tweak the shit out of some pedal, get some really great sounds that way. It feels like having a hardware "Reaktor". LOL And it gives you lots of creativity, of course.

You can also save loooooads of money on so called hi-end equipment that way. Yeah, hardware is fun, and everything you do sounds kinda good. ;) No total recall, though, but the resolution of analog audio and tweaking is infinite. Nowadays people are doing some crazy stuff with DSP, and hardware is becoming redundant... but it's still fun, and fun leads to creativity. I'm not one of those "you have to have a tube preamp" guys, though. As far as I'm concerned, cool tracks can be made with an Amiga 2000 alone. You should see my studio... my wife goes berserk about all the "stuff" lying around and cables everywhere... but I like my creative "dump". LOL

What you can do yourself list is very extensive, but let me tell you this short list: Urei 1176, Teletronix LA3A and LA2A [2A is very complicated and not worth it IMO], DBX 160, SSL E4000 EQ, Neve 1084, Neve 1081.

And you can assemble different kinds of guitar pedals for peanuts. I love those. ;)

DIY all of this can cost you a couple of thousand dollars at the most. If you want to buy them... about 10000 for sure if not more, and you lose the pleasure of making them yourself. So much things about audio and production can actually be learned by knowing at least the basics of electronics. How to solder your own cables, for instance. It can come so handy. Well it actually comes handy all the time, especially when you're on the road. Never forget the solder kit. Never. LOL

Oh yeah, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeQVGB9Qqbg Stuff like that.. Just for the record - I really hate 808 cowbell. Hate it with passion. HATE! Maybe it would sound cool through a Fuckshitupper pedal? LOL

 

What a nice post! Thank you fraggle, I appreciate the sentiment very much. It warms the heart to know that fellow Audiosexers like what's been going on at the forums. I really am trying my hardest to bring something to the table and take AudioSex to the next level. It's easy when we have such a great community which is something that is sadly quite lacking on other forums. It's hard to even put into words the sense of connection, knowledge, insight, laughter and hope that I've found in these forums. It's been great getting to know you guys and in the midst of all the chaos in the world and my own life I find myself looking to the future for the first time in a long time. So here's to the special people that make these forums what they are today.

 

I find the AudioSex forum most friendly of all the other forums I participate in. I'm really loving it here. It feels like family, errr better than that. It has soul! It also makes me feel very open and kinda free to express whatever I feel like.

So sorry if I talk a bit too much off topic, I'm just a little ... you know... fucked in the head. My mind wanders a lot. Except when I make music, mix and produce. I think that's the only time I'm really focused. That's one of the reasons I like to do it.

I also have problems focusing when I have sex, damn it. But I've been like that my whole life so I'm used to it. Other people around me aren't. LOL But My wife is a special kind of human. She is what I call real human-human. Society needs a bit more of these real human-humans. [this all comes from that sentence people usually say "I'm only human, you know?" I don't quite like it. You can be anything you want if you really want to]. I learn a lot from her, and she's my everything.

 

Nothing to apologize about so speak your mind my friend. Who these days isn't a little fucked up in the head? I myself find it hard to slow the mindstream and music brings the cathartic release that you speak of. To quote Velvet Acid Christ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-I6V1-a-5M
It's this perfect harmony
That tires me so endlessly

It's the hurt inside of me
Makes me see the light in me

It's the perfect colour that bleeds
Twisted into the tapestry

It's the way you laugh at me
When i'm too blind to see

If i was high
I could be a flame
I would bend the sky
And set the world on fire
If i was high
I would blow you away

It's the hurt inside of me
Makes me see the light in me

It's the way you laugh at me
When i'm too blind to see

If i was high
I could be a flame
I would bend the sky
And set the world on fire
If i was high
I would blow you away
Away away away

 

Oh yeah, that feels so good, Catalyst. Thank you for reminding me of VAC. So good.

If I might hit you with something I'm currently listening to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S05BhizcHuo

I can't understand why there is so much music that sounds alike these days. Pop music have always been garbage but not so much as these days. Industrial, too. Why do I have to listen to old albums feeling like some kind of an wise old Indian and criticising new bands that come up and call themselves "industrial" bands.

I can almost hear WNz say "this is not industrial, have a listen to "Throbbing Gristle" ) I tend to like a track to have a composition; a start, a chorus, and the end of a kind. I'm not really very artistic. Just aggressive and you know "kick the shit out of ..." kind.

Anyway, I'm so glad not having to talk with people who like to make "trance and dance"... even though I made some tracks myself at the time... long time ago. I didn't have much success because they never sounded like what you call "Trance Dance". LOL I love the freedom to make everything sound... different?

 

FLA is king! Bill Leeb is a legend and used to be in Skinny Puppy under the name Wilhelm Schroeder. You can really see them grow throughout the years until they really refined their music into this huge fucking wall of sound. Pure genius. *yes*

Honestly they are one of the canons by which I measure my own music. I think I would die a happy man if I could get their various incarnations of sound throughout the years but I would want to take it in my own direction and explore something new.

 

Does anybody remember this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COlgcStxEdA It's a killer I like to play at parties sometimes just to see how the crowd would react. LOL

Quite old. Late 80s, I think.

I must say also that lots of these bands were and are my parents in a sense. I've learned from lyrics about what they feel. Most influence on me made "Joy Division", though, and "The Clash", all the punk and gothic bands of the time. But also FLA, and VAC, Leaether Strip, and Wumpscut.

And Depeche Mode.

 

Yeah it's off of the No Limit single which was 1989 if I'm not mistaken. Thinking back like that I realize why they are so good. Figure he was in Skinny Puppy in like 1984 so that's about 30 years that they've invested in their music. I have to remind myself of that every once in a while so I don't feel horrible when my music doesn't quite stack up.

 

+1