Hello guys, I need some advice from you about Copyright, but I will tell you a story, so that you can understand me better.

I play in the subway.
In 2018, a person from Brazil approached me in order to record a live session of what I was playing, to later make a documentary about Argentina culture on a website. So I told him that there was no problem, that I would not charge him anything, since he was supposedly doing a non-profit job and also about the culture of the country. But I told him that for my time, after finishing filming. He will send me the videos by email, since it is useful for my artistic resume. So he told me yes, that there was no problem, that he would send me the videos.
In total we were about 6 hours recording, 3 hours one day and 3 hours another day. Then he disappeared and never felt the videos. I sent him email and email, he never answered me, I tried to access the page he had given me and it did not exist.
So I thought I had discarded the material. And forget me.
In 2020 (two years later). A person contacts me on Instagram and tells me "Hello Rick, I loved your songs, thanks for the videos, I'm learning Spanish with your songs"
So I said? what the hell is going on here? and I said "You got the wrong person." And he kept insisting and he named some of my songs, and I told him yes, where did he get that from, and he told me he was from Brazil and was learning Spanish through some online videos. When he gives me screenshots of the videos, they were all the videos that I had recorded for this man from Brazil. i mean, he ( Man record in 2018) have made a page ( $$)to learn Spanish in Brazil online, with my songs and also other material from other people.
I contacted him and he ignored me.


Well here comes the part of Copyright
I called intellectual property, which was where I always registered my songs, and they told me that I couldn't do anything because I was in Brazil, that they only received the material, that even if I had a problem about copyright in Argentina, I had to pay a private lawyer. to make some kind of request. Something that for a long time I thought they would support me legally, that is, I thought that by registering your lyrics and music if you had a problem they would "defend" you, but no. The material you record serves only as evidence, but you have to make the claim yourself. So I sent everything to the devil and forget about it.

The thing is, I don't know what's the point of paying this entity and doing a whole process.
I was thinking of some other way like sending me my songs by whatsapp (to my number), and that, if I had any problem, that would be my proof.

I would like some advice from you, that another way one could support their music without having to give away the money. Because I feel like I paid for nothing. Registration is very cheap, I can't say it's expensive, because it isn't. But I say, if it only serves as proof, there could be other ways and even faster (like sending the audio to myself)

What do you think?

Thank you for your patience and reading!

 

Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2022

First something positive:
At least your music is in the world now, so other people can listen to your creative music.

One learns from mistakes:
Next time make a contract before or reject the offer.

My opinion:
Of course you can get carried away and waste your time to be even more frustrated in the end.

Remember, it's only your own way of looking at things that makes it a problem,
so never dramatize anything, because it won't end the world.

What happened to you happens to others every day more or less, it is rip-off,
fraud and abuse of trust (some of our fellow men are just cheats).

 

A couple of points...

1. Never tell someone you'll do your music work for free.
2. Search around by where you live and see if you can locate a resource for free or inexpensive legal advice. People on this forum can try to assist you, but it's not the same as getting information from someone who practices law where you live.

The above said, I'm guessing that this isn't something to get too crazy over. A small website that sells learn-a-language instruction and videos probably isn't making what hit records make unless it's a Duolingo or Babbel and so even if you had done everything correctly (which you didn't...) it probably still wouldn't have been a lot of money for you in this. It's the principle (the guy ripped you off!) that hurts, but it doesn't sound like you lost a fortune of money here. On the positive side, it sounds like at least it was done in a way where people seeing these videos can identify it's you and your music in them, which gives some promotion to your work that you didn't have before this guy took advantage of you.

You're correct in concluding that "copyright" is only evidence that certain material is your property and no one else's. When you copyright something in the U.S., all it does is give you proof that it belongs to you. If later on there's a problem related to that "property" you're pretty much on your own. That makes it very difficult to do something about it no matter what part of the world you live in. When I was young I got ripped off TWICE by some very well known recording artists due to my work being passed around to record labels. Go try and do something about it when you're poor and struggling and they're rich and famous. Sadly, this sort of story has been part of the music business forever. Learn from it, and write some more songs. And see if you can get some real legal help to sniff out if this person that took advantage of you is making any real money off of your work. A lawyer can send him a threatening 'cease and desist' notice to stop using your material until you're properly compensated.

Hope that helps a little, Good luck!

 

I have no idea how you could claim your royalties.
Having said that, I have a lot of consideration for artists who play on the street: I always leave large sums of money when I find someone who puts the vibe on their street shows. I believe that these artists perform a huge act of love towards music

Respect

could you publish any footage of your performances?

 

I am not certain about public performances, at all. I hit up google and this generic piece of information spit back at me, so I figure it as informed as anything I am going to impart upon the matter. But I do think this is your initial hurdle.


Who owns the copyright in a sound recording?

Ownership. Copyright in sound recordings is generally owned by the 'maker' of the sound recording. The term 'maker' usually refers to the person who owns the equipment the recording was made on, such as the production company, studio, or record label.

 

Being right and getting right are two different things.
When you do something, you have to contract it beforehand.
Verbal agreements are not worth anything in front of a judge.
How do you enforce your legal claim abroad? Difficult to impossible.

Example domestic: If your music or your product or your interview, somewhere appears, without your consent, you can go to the lawyer and the lawyer will represent your rights. The chance of success is great. Maybe damages or naming of the artist etc..

 

You are very right. very nice advice

Thank you for your words and for taking the time. Yes, the attitude bothered me, because I only asked for the material, not money. And then he went and did his business, big or not. This was in 2020, at a very difficult time for everyone with the pandemic. But I felt more disappointed with intellectual property. I remember I told myself. And now what is the point of making music? No matter how good or bad a work is, if they take away your work, in my case, it means that they take away your life. So, I remember having been talking for almost two hours with an intellectual property person, very loving, he took the time to explain everything to me over the phone (at that time it was not possible to go face-to-face) And I was surprised, because they had never explained me so in detail, how practically useless that organization is, that is, if you don't have enough money to defend your art and pay a lawyer, it's almost the same as not registering a song. I called some lawyers at that time and as it was in Brazil, they quoted me in dollars, a fortune here in my country because of the exchange rate 1 dollar is = 300 pesos (today). So I forgot about this forever and let it go.

Thank you very much for valuing street or urban artists. I am truly eternally grateful to people like you who support us, I have been playing for more than ten years, and people always support you, over there they don't have time to stop and listen, because here in the city people live in a hurry (like all city). But, it's really beautiful work. You know, there is another world there, that is, there you see the essence of the real person, his soul. They have a bad day, they approach you and talk to you like real human beings, maybe you find that same person in another situation and it will be different, maybe with a bad character, angry with life, sad, etc. The power that music has between people is incredible. So, as I said before, beyond money, there is a spirit between the one who makes music and the incredible viewer, it's like you feel connected to the other and all the shit of the system that often makes us face meaningless is left behind. some. Now I don't have a song from the subway, I haven't been back since the pandemic because playing wasn't allowed, and just a few months ago they enabled it again (not completely) but I've had some personal problems. But as soon as I have, I'll upload something to make everyone deaf haha.

Yes, what they told me in another place (an artists' law firm $$$) Is that the work belongs to the author from the moment he creates it, and I name myself the Berne Convention, among other things, but really in that At the time I was very upset and I did not fully understand him, but in a few words, I had to pay a good sum of money to start, in principle a document letter. But, apparently, the only thing that could be done was to remove the content, no more than that. Anyway, as I said before, it doesn't bother me that he has my music, it seems great to me, what bothers me is the attitude. If he had told me, I am going to make a page to learn paid languages, I would have made the videos too, and I would have been content with him sharing the videos, because they would have been useful to me. Here sometimes there are calls for artists, and the more material you have, the more chances you have of being elected, then that material would have served me well. But I already forgot about it.




Well, the last thing I wanted to ask you, if you know, or else I would have to go to a lawyer.

If it is necessary to register the songs in intellectual property, or if one could send the songs to each other by some means such as whatsapp.

Because, if I am going to do a whole process and pay money so that it only serves as evidence, maybe I can have the same proof by sending myself the audios, and that the date appears and remains in the database.



PS: Thank you all for your time and good vibes, I appreciate it very much

 

I read about a lawsuit involving something very similar to this. A guy from somewhere in Europe created some sort of language product, like Rosetta Stone sort of thing. He was being sued because he did this by transcribing a Native American language into a written form product.
Oh, and then trying to sell it to them.

I am not a lawyer, but in this particular instance I would actually look into your situation more. Because if there is a judgement favorable in one case, it gets a lot easier for someone to listen to the story and check if you can do anything about this.

Let me see if I can find details. The way this first sounded was about some street music, in which case you might not do well. this is a different thing, especially if it the same scam.

native-american-language-preservation-rcna31396

 

Last edited: Aug 9, 2022

A very important question: In which country do you live? If I understand correctly it is Argentina?

Collecting societies
What are collecting societies?
These are the organizations responsible for tracking, collecting and paying out earned royalties to copyright owners. This is a collective term for all organizations, individually they are also referred to as collecting societies or collective rights management organizations. Essentially: Collecting societies exercise very different rights than a distributor and can be very useful in earning additional royalties.

Worth reading:
www.bildkunst.de/en/homepage
www.bildkunst.de/en/service-for-users/statutes#c2308

For people who live in Germany:
Verwertungsgesellschaften mit Sitz in Deutschland
www.dpma.de/dpma/wir_ueber_uns/weitere_aufgaben/verwertungsges_urheberrecht/aufsicht_verwertungsges/liste_vg/

 

Yes I live in Argentina.
If it is true there are also other entities that "pay royalties" one of them is called "Sadaic", there are others but I don't know how they work exactly.
For almost ten years I always registered with Sadaic, which is the one who, in theory, pays royalties, but I never received royalties.
I don't think playing on the subway receives royalties, actually I think he's more associated when he plays in bars, pubs etc. The issue is that, here in Argentina, it is quite difficult to get paid to play, rather you have to pay to be allowed to play, or, in some cases, you arrange for the tickets. You must be a well-known musician or band to get paid. There are exceptions, but they are few. I'm talking about Buenos Aires, I don't know how it will be in other provinces.

 

Thank you for the information. Here in Germany there is more copyright protection and also GEMA.

It's not about your performance, but about the film/documentary/interview that was shown "publicly". That means that the TV station where the documentary was shown paid the documentary maker. So there should be a contract between the broadcaster and the documentary filmmaker.

I would go with the story to a journalist / reporter / newspaper and tell him the story. So your name as the author must appear at least somewhere. The promised fee is still outstanding. The newspaper could then interview the broadcaster/filmmaker etc. and possibly make a story out of it. Talk also with the people of " Sociedad Argentina de Autores and Compositores de Música".

 

Download the videos with your own songs, open a website or a YouTube channel (Instagram too) and publish the videos for free, to keep teaching Spanish with your songs. At least you will receive credit. And then do a second round of new songs for the audience that you will have in your channels.

 

It wouldn't let me access the links because they are private, paid links. I don't remember the name, I have the screenshot over there. But to access the content you must pay.

 

No, won’t work: the Brazilian production will report the channel and videos unpublished.
@Ryck See it like this: That guy gave you the input to become a youtube teacher-influencer. It might make more sense if you open your channel featuring new fresh songs, specifically crafted for teaching.
"Learn Spanish - Singalong with Ryck"

Then send the link, I can't wait to watch the channel

 

TL;DR and consider this my 2c, since you shouldn't seek legal advice on forum(s). But we can discuss ofc..

Exactly. You are probably referring to Royalty Collection Society which is just that - they monitor the use of copyrighted works assigned to them, by acquiring the right to license works from the owners (yourself) and collect royalties, do some administration etc.

The Society won't "defend" you in court for ex. They collect royalties on your works because you said (signed the registration), you own the copyright. They have some legislative power, but if any problems arise (like, if someone else claims the copyright) the case has to be resolved by an entity that can enforce the copyright law, which in 99% is the responsible court. It is also up to court to decide on what is relevant and admissible evidence.

*IMO, though - if your registered work was published (even if in another country), the collection society should be able to collect the royalties. Either it's all a big mess, or they might be lazy?

As tempting as it may be, I would not advise to rip and re-upload the videos since the guy owns the recordings copyright. Ofc this copyright does not cover the underlying (your) creative work - music, lyrics..

This does not work. Same goes for sending letters back to yourself etc. Again, it's up to court to decide what evidence to consider.

Bottom line, you should contact an attorney if you want to proceed with the case. They can at least give you advice whether it is worth it, but more importantly how to best protect your work in the future. Good luck!

 

You live in a constitutional state?

Go to a lawyer who specializes in copyright law. First, get advice and describe your case. The lawyer will then decide whether a lawsuit will lead to success. If he takes the case, he will enforce your fee claim, if the other side ignores this, there will be a court case, which will be very expensive for the losing side. Therefore, many give in because they see that it will always be expensive if they don't pay.

 

I'll tell you what I think, my personal opinion on this.
I record my songs since I was 15 years old. And I am a person who asks the same things a thousand times, until I get tired. So ever since I registered my songs I've always asked. What would happen if someone took over my work?
I remember once being in "Sadaic" (Association of musicians that is in charge of registering and collecting royalties). And ask them. "And but if someone took my work, what do I do?" and there were several musicians behind me waiting for the record and he started to laugh, I was a teenager. And they told me "If they stole your songs, tell them they stole mine too, I have a lot for them to steal", looking at this as a business, that is. "We are nobody, I hope someone steals us to be someone."
But until 2020, I always thought that if you had a problem, you could go to them to take legal action.

With all this I want to say that, this thing of being lazy or lazy, depends on the person who attends you, there are people who don't even answer you "quickly give me the work, sign here, PAY!! above all things, $$$$. And go there are other people behind you. You have to run into someone with desire or spirit in what he does for him to tell you, don't look at this, it's like that. with a personal administrator who can't wait for it to be Friday.

Exact! I read this a long time ago when CDs were often used. Someone said on the internet that these associations where you register your songs had no other benefit other than getting paid. And that person said that he sent himself a sealed envelope with a CD with his music and the audio lyrics.
Then I remember that I found out about this, and they told me the same thing as you. It will be up to the judge if this is sufficient evidence or not. But let the judge always ask if he has the record.

And yes, you're right, I should go see a lawyer who knows about the matter. But more than anything I want to be aware of your experience and knowledge, so I will be more oriented.

Thank you for taking your time to give your opinion!

 

You are right, I will have to go to a lawyer and be better advised. But more than anything in the future. Thanks for taking your time.

 

Good luck Ryck.