HookTheory is a great learning site. This for example is genius .. http://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/smashing-pumpkins/1979

I would never have thought of doing something like that by starting with the Tonic 7th chord and using the 7 (leading-tone) note at the beginning of the melody.

Out of that song came this one (Miguel had to give a co-writing credit to Billy Corgan), so it's all out there with regards taking the old and turning it into something new

 

Last edited: Aug 4, 2016

That is not the complete range, it is only for display purposes

 

I consider the Scale plug-in within Ableton Live as one of my dearest friends. I know it's restrictive in a sense that it doesn't let me play any non-scale notes directly when dabbling on my MIDI keyboard. But then again, my piano playing skills are quite horrid anyways and I don't prioritize improving them since I don't have any ambitions of playing out my music live in any conventional way apart from DJing. So if I want to use non-scale notes I just draw them in manually during a later stage, since it doesn't happen all too often anyways.

Previously I did consider at least learning the minor scale within the key of C but I found it too much of a hassle and the Scale plug-in made me too lazy and prioritize my time differently. There are plenty of extremely good producers out there that don't even really use MIDI keyboards to play in their harmonies and/or melodies and on top of that I know of quite a few that use the method of using Scale plug-ins I described as well. Then you obviously still have the few very talented individuals like Zedd or Haywyre that just plays in everything by hand because they played the piano ever since they were just little kids. But we don't all have that luxury and I'd rather embrace modern day technology to work for me than I would try to fight it and force myself to do everything the old fashioned way.

Just to put it out there, I don't want to take anything away from people that are great piano players. I wish I was but I am not going to start learning now when I can do so much more with my valuable time. Just my 2 cents.

 

Not to throw a rench in your post. But without asking, I assume you're wanting to learn/remember scales as a vehicle to allowing oneself to improvise over chord changes. If my assumption is correct I urge you to read the rest of my post, if not you can disregard. The chord/scale theory is a dead end. Sure many great music theorist & teachers have taught the chord/scale theory for decades. But if you look at the great improvisors like Bird, Coltrane, Adderly, Armstrong, Evans - - - not a one of them approached improvising in that fashion. Please watch the video I'm posting of the great Hal Galper throwing his 2 cents in about the chord/scale theory & improvisation. If you're interested I can upload his "Forward Motion" book on our sister site. Pairing his teaching with the "cookie cutter" method of learning scales to play over chords like in Mark Levins book "The Jazz Theory Book" or "The Jazz Piano Book" can be semi-beneficial & you'll here results immediately but those results will be stale... Again I hope I didnt assume too much on my part, but if you're wanting to learn scales to improvise there's a better way.

 

I haven't read all of the replies.

So I used to practice guitar quite seriously, to a degree I was maybe over practicing but meh. I'd get joy in particularly mundane employment by thinking of ways of varying my practice routine. You are what you practice and I wanted to be versatile. I assume the question is in relation to instrument players rather producers. I guess it needn't matter.

So things I did.

1. No hard and fast rules. If monophonic practice try and sing the notes you play.

2. Play the scale up and down. Guitar is an interesting instrument at there are many ways of playing the same scale. I'd choose just one 'position' to start with.

3. Play the scale sequentially in 3rds. IE: C E D F E G F A G B A C.

4. Then in reverse ei 6ths. E C F D G E A F B G C A D B E C

5 The same as above but in 4ths/5ths

6. Harmonize the scale into pairs of 3rds so (C E) (D F) ect.

7 Harmonize scale into pairs of 6ths (C A) (D B) ect

8 Harmonize scale into 4ths and fifths ect.

9 Harmonize into triads and seventh chords.

10. Play through arpeggios of scales IE in C Major.

CM7 Dm7 Em7 FM7 G7 Am7 Bm7b5 CM7

11. Play up one arpeggio move down the next. Ect

12. Play in different keys.

13. Don't spend to long practicing monotonous exercises. It's easy to practice stuff you already know. Limit your time on these exercises.

Scales are often expressed as being boring to practice and un-musical but there are hundreds of ways to vary your practice routine to try and make it more interesting. If you get creative then you can tailor your own practice to fit what you are trying to improve upon. I have left out a discussion of rhythm but all of these can be done with a metronome using 1/4 notes 1/8th notes... Whatever you are technically able to do. Daft time signatures.

Decide on what to do depending on what you wish to improve on. If it's speed then maybe a more sequential scalar practice would help. Ie
C D E D E F E F G

 

Wow that's a statement. You go on and on about alternative music theories and you dismiss the one well known scale that doesn't conform.
The blues scale is used in everything and technically speaking. A true blues scale contains quarter tones.

Just to clarify. The practice examples in my previous post are mainly specific to diatonic seven note scales.

However a lot of the ideas can be fit into Pentatonic, Hexatonic and Octonic scales. Personally I like ex3/4 for hexatonic scales/triad pairs.

 

These words have been copyrighted by me:

memorial
memory
commemoration
immemorial
memoriam
memory
memorabilia
memorable
memorandum
memorialist
memorialize
memorize
memorization

Do you remember when I was trying to make some good memorization ways, all of the AudioSex were against me and were making jokes from me. No I don't let anyone use those words. Find another one.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2016

Ah yes, how can one forget ? It doesn't stick in the memory for being good. Please don't revive it. Mister I don't class the blues scale as a scale.

 

for a non pianist i would strongly recommend, FIRST decide a key your track/song is going to be in, THEN rehearse the belonging scale. otherwise youll keep trying to learn all scales aimlessly and mostly get frustrated.

 

This isn't completely true. Lydian Chromatic Concept was used by Trane and Evans. On the whole though I agree with Hal. I have his book but have never found the time to really get into it. Not sure I was ready for it at the time. Cheers for posting the video and re-enlightening me to his work.

 

Forgot to mention Mr. Russell's concept in their!!! You are correct. I should have mentioned him. My apologies!!

 

When I play guitar I find a chord progression I like, then when constructing the melody I take note the key's tonic (and dominant), before filling in the other notes by ear.

 

Last edited: Aug 3, 2016

yeah, btw with "non pianist" i just meant someone who doesn't play live all of the time. like dance-music producers who require to play just to get things started. its kind of meaningless for such a person to try to learn "all" scales. its better to start knowing what key you are going to work with first, that will save time and spare a lot of lost time.

 

Or just transpose the keyboard

 

This is a complete rabbit hole. I'm glad folks are discussing jazz theory though. To the OP, just remember scales by their "step" formula's first. Then realize that the key could be changing every chord change. You could be modulating or static, the sky is the limit. For easy memorization of a scale, that you can use in any key due to the fact that you're not thinking of the notes yet, is to follow the interval pattern. For example, a Major Scale is WWHWWWH. W=Whole Step H=Half Step. That's about the most rudimentary "secret" of it all, but the most important. Also, what Zenarchist and Moogerfooger are talking about, most masters use "accidentals" to add flavor and spice to any boring old arrangement. In Music Theory, "accidentals" typically mean a flat or sharp, but usually in jazz, it tends to refer to notes that are not properly in key, but sound good. For example, in bluegrass, if you're playing a I-IV-V, almost all the chords will me Major with Minor 7ths (like a Dominant 7th), but there will be plenty of notes "outside" of the key that are technically wrong, but sound so right. Same with jazz. Every once in a while you will hear it in pop or rock, but not often. Remember, this is the music business, and your song is only as meaningful as the audience you are trying to present it to (and most folks don't like interesting music.)

 

Sorry if I sound pretentious.lol Seriously though, the whole step, half step formula's are what make scales. It's a springboard to everything else and you will be able to build any scale from feel from that.

 

I'll say this last thing about "scales" and knowing them intimately. The bottom line depends upon what you ultimately plan to do with your music. Coltrane, Davis, "Bud" Powell, Monk, Kirk, etc., all knew scales (and, not just the Western variety). Knowing the "fundamentals" allows one to stretch and expand while "improvising" within the shadings of a complex piece -- especially when the people you're playing with also know their stuff. As "haphazard" and "wayward" as an improvised passage may sound to the 'casual' listener, there's a lot more "organization" going on than meets the ear. You want to examine so-called "unstructured" Jazz or so-called "Free" Jazz, just listen to Ornette Coleman, Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders, Sun Ra, Cecil Taylor, or any of those practitioners. Whether consciously or unconsciously, those folks reached their musical maturation through many years of practice during their early years. One does not become proficient at their craft in some vacuous bubble...

 

haha, if you want to hear "unstructured" jazz, free jazz, just 2 words. Derek Bailey. That guy is a thunderbolt.

 

No doubt, however Coltrane, Mingus, Eric Dolphy, Albert Ayler, Archie Shepp, Joe Maneri (to name just a few) were out there in the early '60's shocking, confounding and generally pissing off lots of people (especially other "Jazz" musicians). My uncle, who played tenor sax with some of the best during that period, used to tell me about the outright animus that those guys endured at the hands of many hard-core Be Bop guys. I mean downright hostility, man. Kind of ironic, considering that "Be Bop" once was subjected to the same treatment by the Ellingtons and Basies of the day. "Jazz", in all of its forms, (thankfully) is always changing and undulating. If you plant your feet too firmly in one place, you'll look up and discover that someone has built a whole building around you. That's just one consequence of being stagnant with your shit.

 

lol, look what Kurt did to hair metal.