Hi everyone :D

Hope you don't mind advising me on this issue. I am having difficulty making the snares punchy with the type of weight in most commercial rock/metal albums. I am trying to recreate the snare drums featured in the following songs:

I basically use snares from EZ drummer, Toontrack Metal Machine/Metalheads/Metal EZX, Vintage rock etc. kits + NI Studio Drummer and Steven Slate. I've tried numerous compression, eq treatments from within Superior Drummer 2, external comp/eq/tape saturation/transient boosting etc. running it through plug-ins like EZMix2 but none have been able to create the type of punch and weight featured in these 2 songs. I've tried stacking snares but that only adds gain but not the type of dense weight. I've tried lowering the pitch of the snares but it still hasn't yielded that result. I'm sure there must be some kind of mixing technique that I've completely missed that can help achieve that sound but have no idea where to begin.

Please advise :D! Any suggestions and recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you for the help!
Best regards!

 

I can't advise you directly, though I am, myself interested, as this is not an uncommon snare sound. However, try using two different snare samples, and/or pitch-shifting the snare down a bit and use both wet/dry signals. The Waves CLA Drums plug-in is also good for thick but tight snare sounds.

 

Have you been able to find a snare sample in the libraries you have that sound similar to the snares in those songs? If not, that could be what's holding you back.

Maybe over processing your snare would ruin what you are trying to achieve, i'd try for some parallel techniques, that way you wouldn't need to compress your original signal to much, those snares do have a nice punch to them, it could also be the way the mixer made space for the snare and added a really tiny reverb decay/room tone to give it that 'presence' in the mix (referencing the first song).
Here's a cool post I found that touches on the topic: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-...ck-snare-compression-im-getting-cuicidal.html

The SSL E channel has always been my go-to EQ for adding a nice bottom end (less choices = better decision making) but that's just me. I hope some good answers pop up, because those snares do indeed sound solid

 

I will just give u an Ableton project. I have used two snare samples from Ableton core library (lol, all those libraries u mentioned... haha) + Presswerk for compression with slow attack (very important, without presswerk it sounds shiet).
These "producers" on this forum think it's rocket science (well, for them it surely is, Sunday music makers) and they try to explain it writing an essay about it and what not, when it's such a fundamental thing to do. Adjust EQ and compressor, add more reverb, whatever u like.
Actually I think I made it a little to heavy :D but you get the idea overall.

preview (sounds shit on zippy though):


project:
http://www112.zippyshare.com/v/T2l6FVdL/file.html

 

Last edited: Mar 30, 2016

once you've found the right sample , maybe "sidechain compression" is the key to have it stick out of the mix (same thing for kick drum)
sidechain compression is over-used in EDM, but was at first an intermediate/advanced technique for mixing Rock and make the drum or bass stick out trough the guitars tracks.

Also a Transcient plug-in could help to add more puch to a sample.

 

@9000k Hahaha, you dislike 2 comments and your snare sounds very dull, not punchy at all ...

@korniceman3000 i also forgot to say : if you have Waves plug-in : try "CLA Drums" or "JJP Drums" , select any snares and see what happens.
these presets are awesome already, but then tweak them and see what happens, what characteristics you prefer in the sound.

 

I disliked it for "transcient", beginner advicing beginner
if he is smart enough, he will reduce limiting I put at the end of the chain to get more punchiness, so go back to your FL studio and make some hiphop

 

You might like some of the snares from Drumasonic...

Drumasonic 2
http://www.drumasonic.com/product.php?id_product=1

Drumasonic Luxury
http://www.drumasonic.com/product.php?id_product=8
http://audio.drumasonic.com/LUXURY/drumasonic_LUXURY_Big_and_bad.mp3

 

funny and naive thread.
What about of finding a punchy drummer with a good snare drumm (like a black beauty) ??
The sound of your sample videoclips was made with analog hardware and real drummer. Each hit is different of the rest, with feelings, not samples from ableton, ha ha ha.
Ad of course, you need too a good producer with more than 10 years in the bussines.

Is not a question of plugins or samples.
How can you make that voice with yamaha vocaloid? Is not possible . . .

Here, my last record with a simple teen rock band

what i use in record?
http://www.thomann.de/es/ams_neve_1073_dpxdual_preampeq.htm?offid=4&affid=1&subid=364447ES&subid2=AMS+Neve+1073+DPX+Dual+Preamp+&+EQ&origin=boost&gclid=Cj0KEQjw8u23BRCg6YnzmJmPqYgBEiQALf_XzZ9dqQNPKoSBLh4HdeX4Sox1cw14du3aFEwCNSv1LC8aAnqA8P8HAQ

and

http://vintageking.com/vertigo-sound-vsm-2-mix-satellite-mk2-full-version
and
https://www.musimaster.com/microfon...oYeH20kK0R8ojRns1iAtZt3gDrjL0vLuZIaAk-c8P8HAQ

 

Last edited: Mar 30, 2016

Although I would say that your general advice is right, this is a very bad analogy. A sample is in his case a recorded sound from a drum kit, there is not really a difference to what you record from a sound perspective. Some of those kits work with multiple samples, so you don't get the same sound all the time. He is not trying to get or make this sound with a LinnDrum. it's almost like saying he could not get that sound if you send him your recording.

And the real problem with this analogy is the fact that voices are much more complex to emulate than a snare sound, so even if he would try to get the sound from a electronic device, this would not be a good analogy.

 

The first example is mostly a 'big room' sound which is eq'd and compressed with a processed dry tone underneath.

The second example is more overhead than room with a processed dry tone.

You should be using EZD with separate outs for each kit piece. Try the most recent Softube bundle.

Keep in mind that you have to leave space for processing at the mix/master phases which will further alter the
overall tone of the drums inside the complete mix.

The longer you work with developing sound, the better you will become.

Update: Did a quick setup using AD2 (Metal preset, shredder kit) in Reaper on a stereo track and
Summit Audio Grand Channel followed by Tube-Tech Classic Channel (drum bus preset for both)
on the master.

Reduced internal compressor settings and ptched-down the kick OH/Room about 60%.
Also tweaked EQ reducing low setting and notching mids.

Replaced snare with Tama Brass and pitched-up OH/Room slightly.

5 minutes of tweaking gave very good results and could only get better with separate out
processing.

 

Last edited: Mar 31, 2016

...but the real punch not comes from one source, is a mix from the snare, reflections in the walls, in the piano of my room, my lamps, the sound mixed comes from 13 different mics, overheads, rooms, hihat etc . . . after this all miscs go to different preamps, different channels in a mix, different hardware compresors, hardware eqs . . . go to another guy, mastering engineer that have hardware for not kill transients with low and speed compresors, with different attacks, and maybe 30 years of experience . . .
You can not make the same with a drum vsti at home . . .
home is nice to make sketch of the song, and have a idea what you are looking for.
Then you pick a good drummer and go to a good studio with a producer, and you have a punchy rock sound.
Speaking about rock, not electronic music . . .
Sound of snare is important . . . but sond of snare from hihat mic is important too por that punch.
And to know how put all tracks in phase, etc etc etc
Choose correct mics and the perfect placement . . .
EZD (or vsti) is not nice for a pro sound like the videos at top.

here i put a mp3 with the snare from my video with different mics . . .
the color of a real room is very very important
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15900285/snare test.mp3




and do not forget distorsion an non linear process
Here (another of my productions) i use a distressor in the snare

 

Last edited: Mar 31, 2016

You can make that snare drum sound without multi thousands dollars hardware, obviously. With vsti at home, like 1000s of professionals producers do everyday. If a so call professional producer can't make a snare drum pop out without buying half of Thomann stock of hardware then he is no decent producer and he should get of his high horses and just find a new profession, because he is not good at what he does.

 

Sounds like you just need to create space for the snare in the mix. Try pushing some of the other elements left and right and keeping the snare dead centre, that should be a starting point.

 

What I like about this forum, is that we can all help each other out. Even total beginners are entitled to give their opinion to seasoned experts- we all respect each other's views. No one (well almost no one) goes around boasting about how great they are and no one belittles and laughs at other's opinions. No one is pathetic and pedantic about spelling mistakes, and no one spam down rates almost everyone else's comments.
Maybe someone in this thread could take this onboard?
Let's play nice.

 

Maybe this guy can help you out:

 

Agree with conhuir I think it's about the mix as much as the sound. I'd be amazed if those VST's don't have a decent snare sound. So you're probably starting off with something close to what you want, I suspect your processing it too much and killing the transients, and maybe there's not enough space left in the mix too.

A well recorded snare should sound good already and those vst's will be well recorded, with better gear than pon pons, no offence mate!* The punchiness is about how it relates to the rest of the music and how it punches through that. I'd try parallel compression first then maybe side chain compression on some other instruments triggered with a really short signal. Maybe scoop a bit of eq around the snares punchiest frequency on other instruments.

*Not dissing your fine work and agree with what you say about the sound of the different instruments being in the same space and bouncing off each other, something that means a recording of perfectly recorded vst's always sound too sterile.

 

Ah, the "Chris Lord Alge snare"?
Try this:
http://danielsdennis.com/2016/02/audio-legends-chris-lord-alge-course-1-review/

edit:

 

If youre on a mac this plugin low key makes snares gain some body. And its free.

http://www.airwindows.com/drumslam/

 

Hi everyone and thank you for the helpful suggestions. They are warmly welcomed and greatly appreciated.

After reading all the posts, I have to agree with the fact that no drum vst could ever replace the importance of a good drummer in a proper studio recording setup alongside a good mixer and producer for guidance. That would certainly be ideal. Unfortunately, I can't afford that each time I have an idea for a song so I must rely on vsts. That being said, I certainly cannot to deny their usefulness or their importance in drum tracking, drum replacement, drum reinforcement, etc.

Below is roughly my drum vst setup for mixing. Hopefully I didn't screw up the following too much LOL!
For the most part, I think I didn't over process or compress anything as I like to keep the ratio low, around 1.5-2 max with an avg. gain reduction of 1.5-2 db max so I don't squash the snare and kick transients too much. I also keep them centered throughout so I have plenty of space in the left and right channels for the hats, toms, OH, etc. without them interfering. The only time I think I used the transient plug-in was to reduce the sustain and the attack to absorb really loud transients from driving the compressor crazy. That actually helped make my snare louder overall. I also had the kick, snares, toms, hats, overheads, ride all routed to separate channels. I had a parallel bus for each of the following: kick, snare (grouped), toms (grouped), OH, monoroom, reverb + a bus with everything in it (for experimental purposes where I would do massive compression and then gently blend a little into the overall mix signal)

One thing I noticed was the top snare recordings for Metal Machine were completely dry with zero air, minimal sustain, and very little low end. I guess that might be part of the reason why the weight might be missing as Toontrack was going for the cleanest possible dry recording they could capture. After reading Pon Pon's posts I also noticed that the hat mics had zero bleed and did not capture any sounds from the snare hits. They did include OH mics, ambient room mics, a monoroom mic positioned directly over the drums, another room mic for capturing reverb. However, I went and compared the snare sounds in these room/OH/amb mics with those captured in the Kontakt KLI series, Sony Loops and Samples drums, etc. and found the Kontakt/Sony ones to be far louder, heavier, and snappier than those in Metal Machine/EZX/EZdrummer etc. Now I know where all the weight went.... Had those recordings captured a larger amt of snare bleed, the weight in the snares might have been a lot greater...

I listened to the Drumasonic 2 examples posted by Daz and they sound really nice with a lot of punch and weight. I also watched the snare and kick hits by the drummer when they were simultaneous.

I went and re-listened to Pon Pon's Lizzies - Viper track and focused on the snare. It had a nice snap and deeper punch (I guess the snare tuning was also lower than the default tuning of the EZ drummer ones) but it still lacked the same weight as the Imminence and KSE recordings. Then I heard a few snare shots in between that suddenly had a lot more weight. They were hitting around the same time as the dense Kick drum or floor tom which instantly added a huge amt. of weight to the snare hit.

Not sure if this is a good idea or not but I'm considering blending a centered floor tom hit to be triggered at the same time as the snare to see if this helps my quest for a weightier snare sound. Just wondering what you guys think?

Thanks again for the suggestions and for taking the time to read my post.
Best regards!