Hi!

I try to figure out the best tone, but when I listen back the recorded sound, then is always muddy and bassy.
I put in the edge of the cone, in 45 degree. My gear is a peavey 6505 and a mesa recto 2x12 (V30).

So, when I search the best place to mic, then should I the EQ's, presence and resonance adjust to my taste, or first everything put on 5, and so search the perfect position?

 

Use your ears, one of those two cones will be nicer sounding than the other. Try straight on instead of 45 degrees. Back off of the cone a few inches. What mic and pre? There are all these variables as well as finding the sweet spots of your amp itself. The mic is the ear, find the best place for it so it sounds like you want, hoq you envision it. Give us samples so we can hear an example of your sound now to make it easier to help you adjust your situation. What guitar?

 

Hi Venndi,

Here's the 'main point'... and the crucial dilemma for most Audio/Sound Engineers and/or Guitar Players.
You can get (somewhat) 'miracles' by getting a perfect mic placement... or totally ruin a good take with a (somewhat) bad placement !
And this is applicable with the best of the microphone(s) and gear and vice versa with less 'prestigious' ones...

About : "...then is always muddy and bassy.", maybe the below diagrams and pictures can help you in some ways...

 

Last edited: Jan 22, 2016

Thanks!
The mic is SM57, I run it through Scarlett 2i4, my guitar is LTD EC1000 with EMG60 n 81. I'm sorry, I write wrong, I put the mic at the edge of the cap, not cone edge...okay, I will try straight instead of 45 degrees. 2 inch is enough from the cabinet grill?

 

Here is a sample:

Code:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1zOe6BQRLgc

 

@ Venndi,

You're welcome !

As I don't know your 'level of knowledge' about some audio gear, and as I don't have myself never tried a 'Focusrite Scarlet2i4', I gone through Internet to find some info and pictures...

Just some advices (always in case you don't know it yet !) :

All the following is according with the front options available within your Audio Interface :

* In case that you have engaged the '48V' option (red button), disengage it because as you're using a 'Shure SM57' (Dynamic Microphone), you don't need to 'amplify' your microphone as it's the case with 'Condenser Microphones', hence that option ('48V') provided within your Audio Interface.

* Between the 2 options : 'Line' and 'Inst', you should also (if not done !) rather select the 'Line' option instead of the 'Inst' which is rather used to directly plug your Guitar on it ('Hi-Z' Impedence).

* You can also experiment (if not already done !) with the 'Pad' option (red button) which (normally !) must to attenuate the input of your source (maybe -20dB ?).

 

For recording work, the Kemper Profiler has made things a lot easier. There are some very good professional profiles available.

 

I listened to it now and yes, it does sound as you discribed. Is the volume up or are you keeping it at low volume as not to disturb anyone else in your house or neighbors? The mic, though not my first choice on a cabinet, should capture it well and good. Maybe the mic cable is no good. On second thought, please tell me exactly what is your gain staging. What have you tweaked all the knobs at from the cabinet to the Scarlett to your DAW? That will probably help us get to the bottom of it, if my name's not Sherlock Holmes (well it's not really). Speak to you later.

 

Since You miss obviously the basic concepts, Install amplitube 4 and see how they do it in the software.
Once You get what mic positions give you what sound, take that idea and start playing with your real gear.

...and remember: there is no best sound or best mic position... there are just different sounds .

If Your ears are not so good, use analysers in your daw, and compare your sound with a sample that you like

Have fun

 

An awesome way to find the sweet spot while micing a cab is to run pink noise into the amp. The amp should be set to a clean sound or just bypass the preamp section if you can. The pink noise coming out of the cabinet shouldnt be that loud.

Stick a mic up on the grill of the cab, dead center on the speaker cap. Crank up the preamp gain for the microphone. Put on your best isolation headphones and monitor the sound the mic is picking up. Sweet hiss.

Slowly move the mic left or right and youll hear the high pitch hiss start to disappear and become dull as you get closer to the speakers edge. The preferred spot is right as the harshness starts to go away. Generally this is around where the cap and cone meet. You can also pull away from the speaker and see how that effects the sound.


One of the best parts about the pink noise method is for when you want to use a 2nd mic. Throw the 2nd mic up there and you want to monitor both mic at the same time, but flip the polarity of one of the mics. Now you are looking for the spot with the most cancellation. The signals wont completely null, but youll find a spot that basically gets rid of any harshness.

Once you find that spot, flip the polarity back and youll have awesome guitar tone. As long as you dial in your amp right.

 

Kemper is good, but it's expensive.

The volume is at 1. But it's good in live...the sound starting at 0.3, and at 1 is very good. I tried to record at volume 2. the difference was not really noticeable. The mic cable is good, it's a Cordial CMK 222, with neutrik connectors, and when I singing, then is not muddy and bassy. My amp settings is: Pre Gain:6 Low:7 Mid:5 High:6.5 Resonance:6.5 Presence:7. In live it's sounds good. And I have an SD-1 for boosting, level on max, drive on zero, ton at 1 o'clock.

Thanks for the amplitube "method" and for the pink noise suggestion too.

 

Over the years playing and recording, I have experienced these facts.

With guitarist who use a more responsive tone can (clear classic variations) allow the use
of close microphone placement. For me this means at the grill or 1ft to 3ft from the speaker(s).
Room and mircrophone determine placement. For a SM57 I have always placed the mic 1ft out from
the speaker center for combos and 4x12s... For condensors, 1ft to 3ft out adjusting for the sweet
spot between speaker and cab resonance.

Keep in mind that the heavier the tone, the more distance required for the tone to develop. This
is why high gain recording is done in large spaces with multiple mic placement.

 

I didn't notice, that the recorded track had lost some quality, this vocaro site isn't the best...anyway, I uploaded on another site: https://clyp.it/y1gvhnkj Is also very bassy and muddy?

 

Friggy told you the best information you can get! Lot of mids in your tone. Might want to roll them down just a hair. Also, turn down the distortion right to the point of it becoming hard to play. You are going to quad track those parts so it will sound HUGE.

 

@venndi ... you blaze, dude. Great playing.

 

I give up guys, I tried whole day, but I can't get the right tone.
I found an old thread, the guy had the same gear as I, only engl 2x12 intead of my mesa 2x12, he wrote the amp settings, the mic position. I tried all, but the tone is far from what he recorded.
I tried with different mic cable...I know that the mesa cabs tone is darker, then the engls, what do you think, it's worth to sell out my mesa, and buy Engl cab?
I can't imagine what can be the problem.

 

Just a question about your 'Shure SM57' Microphone. Is it a new (I mean, recent) one, or is it a (rather) aged Model ?
Because as you clearly stated that you've tried the 'whole day' and with 'different mic cables', maybe your trouble comes directly from your 'Shure SM57' instead, for instance, of your own gear (e.g. 'Mesa Boogie 2x12' Cab).
Check its 'Capsule' or any other(s) of its 'internal' components... maybe your trouble comes directly from there (?)

 

Last edited: Jan 23, 2016

I bought it used on ebay. It looks like new, and yes it's recent, look like this http://cdn.shure.com/product/main_image/9349/prod_img_sm57_l.jpg

 

In this case, do you have tried it on a different audio sources, as for instance, your own Voice, any other Musical Instrument (which can or need to be 'miked'),... It could be the better test to see (and hear !) if your 'Shure SM57' is still in pretty decent condition.

What I was talking in my previous Comment about some 'spare parts' of your 'SM57' is for the example the following :


Replacement Cartridge for 'Shure SM57'

If necessary, it could worth that you invest a few money to get it almost new, or at least in pretty condition to properly working with all its 'sonic qualities' (as a real Dynamic Microphone reference which is the 'SM57').

 

venndi Shure mics on ebay could reveal bad surprises
chinese counterfeits, I m saying maybe if it sounds unproperly
I ve purchased an SM57 and a Beta 58 once on ebay, both fakes
google for the differences or open the mic and check the wires, Shure has 3 colors usually chines ones, just one color