How the sound travels to my neighbours?

Discussion in 'Studio' started by Highdom, Feb 16, 2021.

  1. Highdom

    Highdom Kapellmeister

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    Hi guys,

    I need to understand the order of magnitude of "direct transmitted sound through vibrations" and "transmitted sound by absorption of walls" to understand which one is the priority if I want to play music in an apartment.

    In general, if I have two speakers on my desk (not so noisy, around 70/80db) in an almost empty room (5x5 meters), the neighbour who lives on the floor below hears more the sound transmitted directly through the vibration of the desk or the one absorbed by the walls?

    (NOTICE: I'm referring only to the neighbour on the floor below, which means that he borders on me only with the floor!
    NOTICE 2: let's suppose the wall behind the speakers is far away. In other words, we are in the centre of the room.)

    Thanks!
     
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  3. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    Low frequencies will travel through floor/ceiling. One of the reasons for floating floor and ceilings. Higher frequencies wont. However, low and high frequencies will travel through walls, vents. One of the reasons for layers/barriers in walls, for example the drywall sandwich. In a nutshell, without doing any construction you need to, isolate the speakers (IsoAcoustics?)) and tame the resonant frequency of your recording studio (room) walls. Use a combination of absorbing/deflecting
    material.

    There is a series of threads by @Sinus Well with lot of info on it. You should read it.

    Edit: Here it is https://audiosex.pro/threads/room-acoustic-thread-how-to-treat-your-room.50138/
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  4. Macta

    Macta Noisemaker

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    My father living in a appartement and has a work-hobby-room with very noisy tools, he treated the whole room with 'agglomer' and MDF
    It's almost silent for the neighbours now, if he use a circular saw now they only here it when its very very quiet.
     
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  5. Derwisch_64

    Derwisch_64 Member

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    There are two kinds of sound-transmission, the first which is mechanical is usually the one bothering the neighbors, so Pirates advise about the ISOAcoustics de-couplers is just the thing to do. The better the speaker is disconnected from the floor the better it is for you.
    The second kind of sound-transmission is acoustic which is a problem at higher SPL levels and very expensive to treat.
    Think about a low-frequency soundwave as a drill with a very long drill-bit, you would need a lot of mass/space to avoid the drill reaching the other side of the wall.
    Isolate your speakers and keep mixing, producing, and recording during office hours, outside these hours, turn it down or buy a house ;)
     
  6. Dan Fuerth

    Dan Fuerth Ultrasonic

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    Interesting I am working on an idea to remove the furnace noise ( at the main unit area)from homes.

    So far it's a hit and mix with reference sounds and audio staging for noise cancellation.

    Still working on it, if I ever come up with some solution this would be incredible as most finished basements have the Furnace in a closed room near by and you can hear the furnace easily.

    Imagine entering your furnace and only hearing the air and motor spin noise...!!

    Rubber flooring works great at removing low rumble from reaching downstairs
     
  7. Highdom

    Highdom Kapellmeister

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    Ok so in general, since low/mid frequencies have a lot of more energy with respect to high ones, low soundwaves usually take more distance to attenuate. So I can always neglect high freq noise.

    As I guess, most of the noise propagated mechanically through the vibration of the speakers (and the desk?). Then the second most important way comes from the resonance of my room/stuff in the room.


    isoacoustic Aperta series is what I should get?


    I was thinking also to put some kind of "freestanding" absorber panel around the desk, that I can move around when I need to work with speakers. This both to try to block resonation and for acoustic treatment. Could it be a good idea?
     
  8. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    Those do an excellent job, and so do the Ultimate MS-80 and Vibrapod Cones. Whenever making a decision keep in mind that you can isolate speakers by using foam pads, stands, and cones.
    If you want to save some $$ try some washing machine vibration pads. With that said, the first thing you should do is turn up your music, and ask your neighbor for permission to go down to his place and listen to what he is complaining about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  9. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Definitely. Let there be no guess-work!
    And it will be the low-end, it always is. As it is omni-directional.
    Also the whole music room could be acting as a resonant box, multiplying the bass for downstairs.
     
  10. Highdom

    Highdom Kapellmeister

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    My neighbour doesn't complain yet, but he'll do as soon I start using speakers.

    I was thinking also to buy a high density (2000kg/m^3) rubber sheet to put below the desk to insulate even more the floor. Could it help?

    Moreover, any free standing absorber panel to put around the desk you recommend?
     
  11. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    Anything that serves as a barrier between your speakers and floor and neighbor's ceiling will help but remember that sound travels through the walls as well as the floor.
    There are too many portable acoustic panels to choose from. I can't recommend any in particular because when it comes to panels whether diffusers or absorbers, I build my own. Indeed, the first thing you need to read about and learn is the difference between diffusers and absorbers. For diffusers, there is this online calculator http://www.mh-audio.nl/Acoustics/diffusor.asp. If you buy panels like those manufactured by GIK Acoustics, the manufacturer offers an online calculator https://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-panels-calculator/
    Again, go to the thread I pointed to earlier. Lots of info in it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  12. Moogerfooger

    Moogerfooger Rock Star

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    Maria ALWAYS diverts my attention....
     
  13. Moogerfooger

    Moogerfooger Rock Star

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    I gotta be blunt & just say get used to wearing headphones... Look up Rod Gervais on Gearslutz, get his book "Build It Like The Pros". After reading a little bit & possibly getting a response from him on Gearslutz I'm almost 100% certain you'll want to save yourself a huge amount of money, time & headache by sticking to phones in an apartment... What about renting a home or buying one in the future? Then you wouldn't have to worry about neighbors hearing your speakers. I dont mean to sound rude btw......It just that I tried the apartment thing 3 times before in my young 20s & it simply doesn't work without having cash to modify a structure & the permits to do so...
     
  14. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    I agree with you and was going to suggest that but since he asked for different advice I refrained from doing so. However, now that you mentioned it I will say it is a good idea and something he should look into as an alternative. Once he learns, how to mix with cans he can go long ways with it.
     
  15. Highdom

    Highdom Kapellmeister

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    Indeed, I actually work 90% of the time with headphones.
    I read really carefully the topic about absorber. Does anyone know the flow resistivity coefficients for acoustic foam (PU, like the classic pyramidal panel)? Can't find any data sheet on google
     
  16. livemouse

    livemouse Ultrasonic

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    better find a new place to do music. lots can be done to treat the walls and stuff but nothing will be foolproof when you have neighbors.
     
  17. dondada

    dondada Producer

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    You have to be careful with that "absorber panel"
    MEANING:
    if you use stuff like basotect it could be that you are actually "Focusing" some frequencies and thereby accentuating your problems
    Thats because basotect tends to reflect more of the "lower" frequencies.

    Like suggested things like Primacoustic Recoil stabilizer (varying sizes)
    [​IMG]

    Do enough to decouple and thereby disabling any thing to resonate with the frequencies
    Like Isoaccoustic stuff they work really well
    https://st2.myideasoft.com/shop/ba/82/myassets/products/421/iso155-1.jpg[​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    i´m not a fan pure foam stuff, but it is surely better than none!
    Forget the rubber sheet, as long as its not a wooden Floor/Ceiling, then i dont know about the merits of it.
    As always, good sufficient BassTraping / Absorption, while not Sound Proofing would certainly help prevent unnecessary Sound Spillage.

     
  18. ptpatty

    ptpatty Producer

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    I have two comments. As mentioned before, see if you can see what it sounds like in the neighbor's apartment. Remember it is better to mix at lower volumes as you can hear more detail.

    As far as mixing on headphones, while not ideal, it can be done. You may want to try Sonarworks in conjunction with something like Waves NX stuff. Some say it's great..orhers have mixed opinions.
     
  19. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Totally! Well said. :bow:
     
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