How much dB do you reduce when using side-chain compression?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by SquareDjay, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Kapellmeister

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    Hi,

    I wanna know how many dB does your compressor reduce your bass side chained on your Bass Drum in EDM productions,please?

    And also I'm curious of your adjustments of attack/release of your compressor when used as a side chain compressor?

    Thanks guys
     
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  3. Raffz

    Raffz Member

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    AS many as it's needed. meaning: Do you want a very clean signal? Reduce more so the sidechain trigger is more defined/has less conflict. Do you want both to play at the same time but the sidechain working as a sorta softner of amplitude? Then well, adjust to taste without going so agressive on the GR. Think of as simple volume automation drawing, as those curves in LFOTool in similar plugins. That's the effect you're achieving so ask yourself do want the signal to bleed in a bit or to go away almost if not completely. Hope it helps!
     
  4. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    It all depends on the track and how it fits with the rest. Sometimes it doesn't sound ducked when you listen to the beat and the ducked group, but you can hear the ducking if you solo only the group. It's more about making room for everything. But you can also use it as an effect (as in so many EDM tracks).

    I use fastest attack and release depending on tempo (so that it swells in time, in a musical and non stressful way, timewise). When I use ghost-kicks I tend to offset the kicks (ahead) and add some attack, to smoothen the potential clicks that might occur (due to very fast amplitude changes) and to also make room for offset (ahead of beat) claps, snare, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
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  5. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Why not just automate the volume instead of sidechaining? That's all it does anyway, isn't it?
     
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  6. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Not everyone does 4/4 throughout the whole track. And you also might want to modulate compressor/attenuation parameters quickly.

    But yeah - a compressor attenuates amplitude, just like volume automation, sync'd volume LFO/envelope, etc)
     
  7. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    To put it simply, I would say: maths and musicality are different worlds here. Just use your ears, not standard numbers. It doesn't work here. Some material needs small amount of sidechain, another - much harder. Ears
     
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  8. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    haha. Whoops, I forgot. You know that other stuff is only there so 4/4 sounds better?
    So, for 4x4, just a one beat volume automation (and then put through the compressor with the same settings? and repeated) would sound the same as sidechaining it? And be a lot simpler?

    I have recently tried gating instead of sidechaining and it works well. Just change the threshold and the sound changes completely.

    VST2 can't do side-chaining? Only VST3, right?
     
  9. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

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    @G String I use side-chaining specifically to affect another audio signal usually leaving the source muted.
    See the synth line that warbles in this:

    comes in @ 0:28 then gets exaggerated beyond belief.
    You can do this with automation and careful modulation for hours but side-chaining to the drums and modulating the Envelope, Attack, and Release times gets the same effect in seconds, but live.

    @Baxter is right. Depends on the effect you're trying to achieve. Who needs YouTube when you have Baxter? Seriously, bro. I'm in awe of your technical prowess.

    Drop an Auto-Filter in Ableton on your synth (or audio file) and activate Sidechain, then point it to a drum track or anything with defined transients (even another synth/bass line will get results)

    FYI That Prodigy synth is side-chained to an Amen Break. That main beat in the verse is a layered, EQ'd, NY Compressed Amen Break.

    @Von_Steyr CERN Quantum Effect in full effect. I remember 1985 brother. I was 2 years old and living in the South Pacific.
     
  10. flyingsleeves

    flyingsleeves Producer

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    I've noticed that many questions asked in this forum can all be answered the same way. Trust your ears.
     
  11. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

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    No, bro. VST2/3 has nothing to do with it. It depends on the capabilities of your DAW or the VST itself. Fabfilter VST2 plugins allow for external sidechaining.

    Ableton Live can't even host VST3 plugs but it's stock Compressors, Filters, Gate and Eq's all sidechain whatever plugin you put in the chain in front of them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  12. darthloud

    darthloud Member

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    Vst LFOTool is one good method for sidechain effect
    DonĀ“t need ghost kick , only insert plugin
     
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  13. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    I've always tried automating such things tbh.

    In fact that Prodigy synth (which I am sure I have never heard before) reminds me very much of a tune I did. And on which I hand-automated the same kinda effect. At about 40 seconds and on FWIW. Yeah, I can see automating with the drums would be simpler and better. Or a combo.

     
  14. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    With 4/4 you just need an automation clip or a looped/sync'd shapable LFO, like Xfer LFOTool VST, Sonic Academy Kickstart VST, etc. It's a very easy and quick fix.
    But when you want to SC compress guitars and bass with a live drummer, it will be nightmare to add all those automation-points. :)

    Side-chain expander/gate? Should work the opposite, meaning things would get louder when the kick hits. I've done a few things with that, where I let my drums control (raise) the amplitude of a noise track. It was pretty cool, like vocoding drums with a synth pad.

    Naw, VST2 also works fine for side-chaining.
     
  15. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Hmmm. I'm pretty sure only VST3 does sidechaining. DAWs have their own fx with sidechaining, but VST1/2 doesn't do it SFAIK.

    This is from FabFilter's site, on sidechaining:

    I only feel sure about it because I tried so long to get a solution to doing it with VST1/2 and couldn't. Other people were asking the same thing. And I found a few places saying it can't be done in VST1/2. It's the only reason I always go for VST3 (despite its random file locations).

    I might be wrong, for sure. Maybe some DAWs handle VST2 different to others? The same Fabfilter info for Ableton doesn't explicitly mention "select VST3", as it does with Cubase. Maybe they left it out? Maybe it isn't necessary? Does Ableton give you the choice? There does seem to be something about VST2 not doing sidechaining, at least on some DAWs.

    I think Waves stuff only does sidechaining in VST3.

    Going looking, I found this, from Sonar, apparently:
    Well, for sure, some VST2 plugins don't support "multi-input".

    Who knows? Suck it and see. :D
     
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  16. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    It honestly never occurred to me that one would use it outside dush dush dush dush.
    That's interesting. But I didn't mean that. I meant putting a gate on the bass and the kick - which isn't really what sidechaining is (cutting the bass on the kick?). Gating the drum and bass cuts them and lets you mix them in similar fashion to sidechain kinda sound. It can give a really nice tight kick and off-beat bass or be softened off with a change in just the gate threshold. I'm sure it's old hat but it sounds nice.
     
  17. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Kapellmeister

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    Of course...It's just to learn about others,how they do.I make music since a long time and use sidechain everytime I make music,and I do it with my ears.But theory is like maths and can be ultra usefull.
     
  18. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Kapellmeister

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    Please,which synth did you used to make this acid synth line?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  19. Sylenth.Will.Fall

    Sylenth.Will.Fall Audiosexual

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    You and me both Pink!

    Just a thought, but if you were to add 2 instances of Waves Bass Rider, one to sidechain to -2db and the other used as a brickwall limiter, wouldn't that automate things for you?
     
  20. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Pretty sure it was Audio Realism's ABL v3 I think. The best 303 sound I have heard. Hard to believe those 303 squelchy sounds are so captivating, but I love em. :D If only I could work out how to program them.......

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Naw, I just settle with plain and simple SC compression on the guitar group/bus.
     
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