how I can edit the loudness and the dynamic part separately?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by ryck, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. ryck

    ryck Member

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    [​IMG]Hy guys!!

    Does anyone know how I can edit the loudness and the dynamic part separately? I have tried some editors, but some do not let me select only that part, and others when selecting, just edit the equalization.

    https://ibb.co/gravBo (image).

    Thanks!![​IMG][​IMG]

    Edit:

    Thanks to everyone for your replies. It really is very interesting. About everything he says Baxter and mercurysoto, I always learn something new. But, I think maybe I do not express myself well. And even more, I do not speak English and I use a translator. I understand what dynamic is and how to increase or reduce it, compressors, limiters, etc. (Although I can never have total control desired) That's why I thought. If I could somehow control the dynamic range separately from the loudness, then I could adjust how much I want of dynamic value and how much I want of loudness (I hope I am expressing myself well). In this way, you can only add an effect to the dynamics without affecting the loudness. In fact, being unable to do this manual, I did an experiment. With the C2 of fabfilter in a low radius and just listening to the transients, create a track. And another track with a limiter leaving only the loudness, this way I got two tracks, one with the loudness and another with the dynamics, and I could apply the effect only in the dynamics, and it was very different than applying it in the original track. The problem with this experiment is that it is not really separating the loudness dynamics, since I had to use a compressor. That is why I thought that something similar could be done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
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  3. Chris Wellz

    Chris Wellz Kapellmeister

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    Wow, I never thought I'd ever see a question like this. But to answer your question, it is impossible to edit those separately. Not in the sense that you are referring to. Dynamics and Loudness are talking about specific measurements of time. Dynamics specifying the fundamental differences between the most quietest moment in an audio verses the loudest moment. Having both makes something sound incredibly "dynamic". You may be talking about peak metering vs rms metering. The more loudness, the less dynamic, and vice versa. That's how it works. You can aurally deceive the ear to thinking that something is louder and dynamic. But then you would have to get those points closer and use more transient shaping plugins to even it out.
     
  4. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Look up parallel/upward compression vs. ("regular") downward compression.

    Edit: It's all relative, as you might have already figured out. More loudness means less transients, as they go hand in hand.
    If you use a transient designer to attentuate the transients, and make up gain, you will get more loudness. That's why I mentioned parallel compression, as it leaves the transients intact while adding more loudness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  5. mercurysoto

    mercurysoto Audiosexual

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    Reviver VST adds saturation which leads to a louder perception without messing up too much with dynamics. So does Sonnox Inflator, but I guess on a different approach. Prime Studio Charly is a summing plugin that also helps add loudness without messing up the dynamic content a lot; BTW, it’s a freebie.

    The key is discretion in its use. In general, It’s better to apply compression/limiting/saturation in stages in the main track groups and busses, or even individual tracks, than blasting the stereo bus. Sometimes it’s some individual tracks whose peaks could be affecting a bus compressor’s capacity to add loudness without messing up the mix balance. Say, for instance, that some tambourine is peaking too dynamically, and some of its peaks, when summed in the mix, are poking the compressor too hard. In this case, limiting or automating said tambourine will even out the mix, allowing the bus compressor to act gently on the stereo bus, leaving headroom for more loudness compensation without harsh artifacts. Plugins like Hornet Track Coherence can help you identify tracks that are too pokey for very little money.

    There’s just one more thing for me to be said. These plugins (Reviver, Inflator, and Charly) work well on fairly well mixed material. If the mix sucks, it’s only going to get worse. If the mix really good, only a small pinch will do, or even none at all. Too much can wreck a good mix.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  6. TW

    TW Platinum Record

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    I think I don't get the question.
    You can edit the "loudness" without editing the dynamic very simple. Make it louder/quieter turn the volume up or down. It won't change the dynamic. Make a signal +3 louder e.g. the complete sound "everywhere" gets louder + 3 db ...
    Dynamic is the difference between your most quiet and loudest part.
    You can edit the dynamic of a signal with Compressors and expanders (upward and downward)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  7. ryck

    ryck Member

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    Thanks to everyone for your replies. It really is very interesting. About everything he says Baxter and mercurysoto, I always learn something new. But, I think maybe I do not express myself well. And even more, I do not speak English and I use a translator. I understand what dynamic is and how to increase or reduce it, compressors, limiters, etc. (Although I can never have total control desired) That's why I thought. If I could somehow control the dynamic range separately from the loudness, then I could adjust how much I want of dynamic value and how much I want of loudness (I hope I am expressing myself well). In this way, you can only add an effect to the dynamics without affecting the loudness. In fact, being unable to do this manual, I did an experiment. With the C2 of fabfilter in a low radius and just listening to the transients, create a track. And another track with a limiter leaving only the loudness, this way I got two tracks, one with the loudness and another with the dynamics, and I could apply the effect only in the dynamics, and it was very different than applying it in the original track. The problem with this experiment is that it is not really separating the loudness dynamics, since I had to use a compressor. That is why I thought that something similar could be done.
     
  8. TW

    TW Platinum Record

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    I got you now. You want to split your signal at a specific db threshold ? So everything above or below that threshold e.g. you are able route to a specific effects chain? Mhhh...
     
  9. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Duplicate the track/source you want to split into transients and loudness:

    1) transients = load a noise gate or expander to exclude just the transients. OR set a transient designer to full snap and long release (You will probably have to turn the output gain down quite a bit).
    2) loudness = compress/limit the shit out of the drums(?)/sound file where you set the threshold to where the "loudness" is, according to you.

    Mix 1 and 2 together until you find a good balance. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  10. ryck

    ryck Member

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    Exactly...Whit a Vst Transients i can do it this?
     
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