[How?] get a balanced stereo Piano

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by metaller, May 13, 2018.

  1. metaller

    metaller Platinum Record

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    How do you get a balanced image of stereo sound from piano VSTis?

    I have not tried so many different libraries, but with toontrack Ezkeys, when I play high notes, they mostly come out from the right speaker, which don't seat at all in the mix. How can I make the image balanced?
     
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  3. reliefsan

    reliefsan Rock Star

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  4. bluerover

    bluerover Rock Star

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    That's usually how a piano is recorded in a real stereo L-R recording scenario. High to low keys, right to left.
     
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  5. shomyca

    shomyca Producer

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  6. PopstarKiller

    PopstarKiller Producer

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    Just narrow the stereo field/turn it mono. Pro Tools and Reaper have that option on every track.
     
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  7. iluvhiphop

    iluvhiphop Kapellmeister

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    I think maybe the libraries you use is the reason it doesn't sit well in your mix. It's hard to imagine it's due to the panning of higher and lower notes, but then again, I don't know what style you produce and what you do with your piano. Personally, I cannot work with Native Instruments own pianos. Pianoteq is another popular (or at least highly praised) plugin, that also just never blends well with anything really.

    Before you jump to any conclusions, try Keyscape, Best Service Galaxy Vintage D, and finally Waves Factory The Tack for some wonkier stuff. These 3 does it all for me.
     
  8. Qrchack

    Qrchack Producer

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    Well, this is how piano usually works, you know. High notes are actually coming from strings that are on the right, so you hear them from the right. The way to make the stereo field balanced is to write parts that make a better, balanced use of the range of notes available. This works great if the mix isn't dense. For busier stuff really, just use the panpots and either move that piano to the center, or have it on the opposite side of something else (guitar, whatever). Remember if you have a big mix, you won't be able to make everything sound nice, wide and full.
     
  9. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    I know you are not a noob, so I wonder what the problem with narrowing the width could be. Phase issues?
     
  10. metaller

    metaller Platinum Record

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    Thank you @shomyca and @reliefsan :wink: I tried Nugen mono filter, but yet the sound was not that balanced. I should try the plugins you suggested
    Yes, I want to first narrow down the stereo image to get the high notes in the center, then I may use a Stereo widening plugin.

    Thanks, @PopstarKiller :bow: this might be one stage of my desired sound. Because then I need to make it stereo again artificially.

    Thank you @iluvhiphop .:shalom: I need piano for background rhythm. I should give the Pioneteq and Best Service Galaxy Vintage D a try. However, the keyscape and Waves Factory Fazoli size are so much.


    Thank you @bluerover and @Qrchack. :cheers:
    Because I want to use the piano in a busy mix, and mostly for background rhythm, it can't be just in a speaker, as it will make the listener tried. The problem may be solved if I use a mono piano but all of the libraries are stereo.

    Because I think narrowing stereo image is not enough. I was thinking about using two sample libraries Eq matched and panning them left and right to get a wide balanced sound. Like double tacking the guitars.:metal:
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  11. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Platinum Record

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    usually stereo piano sucks by nature,
    you might mono it and then stereoize it (something like Nugen stereoizer will do well, without introducing phase issues) or just do some multiband stereo spread (fabfilter pro-mb presets) which keeps low/low-mid centered
     
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  12. saltwater

    saltwater Rock Star

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    maybe this is worth a shot:



    its a "stereo space adjuster" available for free
     
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  13. Matt777

    Matt777 Platinum Record

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    HTH, so I read the above very quickly.. maybe missing something. There is only ONE guy in the hall, that hears lower notes on the left and higher on the right, and that is the pianist. (Because I play it all my life, Im also used to hear it like that..)

    The piano in your mix should instead sound like someone hears it from the 3rd or 7th row in the auditorium/or whatever. That's why e.g. Imperfect samples has the pianist and listener "perspective". The Hammersmith has different mic placements - use the Schoeps or Neumann pair placement.. (it has also built in flip and stereo width control)

    Putting something like brainworx bx_control or similar to narrow the image (or make it mono) surely improves the situation, but IMO it's better to have (virtual) microphones placed the way the piano is really placed on stage vs listener position.
     
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  14. metaller

    metaller Platinum Record

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    Thanks :wink:This is exactly what I think might be the solution.

    Very useful plugin :bleh: Thank you.

    Thank you @Matt777 :headbang: You should say this to stupid library makers. You bring me the idea to use some space and stage plugins :invision: Like altiverb.
     
  15. shomyca

    shomyca Producer

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    I often like a single mono channel from samples more than collapsing stereo to mono (very rarely like the sound) . Might not be good for piano but it's worth a listen, might be just what you are looking for.
     
  16. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Ah, I see. So using two stereo libraries, swapping the pan of one of them and then adjusting the stereo width could be a solution too?
     
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  17. metaller

    metaller Platinum Record

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    Yes tried norrowing the stereo field just now and the comb and phasing effect is horribly audioable. I should go with a piano library with deca tree mic or using a mono piano.

    Yes :invision: Let me try this too.
     
  18. famouslut

    famouslut Rock Star

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    I would also recd using Hammersmith (well, just generally) or Pianoteq (ideally depends if you like the sound). Hammersmith has stereo width and lots more options (as do other libs) and Pianoteq allows stupid levels of control. I guess it's more important to find the sound you like, tho?
     
  19. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    For narrowing just the lows and/or the low mids (to move them to the center) I had pretty good results with AAY-Audio aMS-Tools PRO. It's small, clear and easy to handle:

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. metaller

    metaller Platinum Record

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    Hammersmith pro has too much size. I am going for trying pianotech and addictive keys. The latter one has multiple mic options for a low size library.

    Thank you @No Avenger :wink: I would test this for high.

    This did not work for two Ezkeys with the hard left and right stereo pan. I may try different libraries together.
    I noticed I can automate panning of the track. For example for high notes in piano, panning to 45L put it in the center! Don't you know any automatic panner plugin for making the left and right sound in same volume?

    Virtual positioning with altiverb did not work. Do know any other plugin to put the piano in the stage position?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  21. famouslut

    famouslut Rock Star

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    Pianoteq lets you put any signal anywhere, open the mic thingy. Includes just single mono option. That might be narrow enough? :D No need for send shenanigans.
     
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