Pending deletion keeps me on my toes. It's like every time I see the doctor and he says "I think we should keep an eye on that tumor"

 

Western music theory is a language and btw noone makes music according to the "classical rules" - they are mainly a pedagogical tool, because they cover way more than making just a jazz/pop/insert any world genre and can be expanded or discarded according to your preferences in actual music activities.
If you want to learn non-Western music theory, you will have to learn their terminology. I've seen Indian and Arabic books and they use their own cultural idioms even in translations made for Western people. In general, you won't find anything unheard of in non-Western music that can't be analyzed using Western theory.
Do you want some recommendations (I don't doubt that you won't read any of them just like you didn't read any of the stuff that I recommended before in many of your threads)...

 

I just pulled Yoruba drumming out of the air as an example. I too encounter a lot of videos on how to play, but not that get into theory and composition. For better or worse, I am trying to figure this stuff out more from a composer/producer perspective. And circumstances aren't conducive to buying and practicing acoustic instruments. It could be that I am accustomed to Euros being more analytical about their music than most of the world.

What books are those?

Technically, I agree. In the same way that I agree a completed track can be made in one's DAW by specifying a nearly infinite sequence of sine waves. It's often an ugly hack that is more work than realizing those forms more directly. I grew up using hardware sequencers, and then software, these were my "theory", my constraint system. But if you are dealing with microtones, or polyrhythms, or both - your typical hardware sequencer and DAW work against you and everything becomes a chore.

So since I am not very heavily invested in European music, I have thought for some time that I should compare the theoretical underpinnings of various kinds of music, and work with whatever makes sense.

I have been at the forum for only a week or so, and haven't had many threads. I would check out relevant books that you might recommend.

 

Aren't you Foster (who was banned or whatever)...

If you want to deal with microtones and synths, get reaper and rename the piano roll notes, then save for reusing; any microtonal synth + kontakt (you can write your own script for retuning anything) or use the existing scripts. You can also use any division in the bar in the piano roll there. Try 22 edo (there is some theoretical material on it online), 31edo, 7 edo (thai/ancient chinese), 5 edo (african), maybe 24 edo for modern arabic music, 29 for turkish, 9 edo (indonesian gong+bells type music - one of the scales there is the "anti-major" scale - small and large steps are flipped).

bounce metronome - polyrhithmic ( + polymetric and other crazy stuff ) software for training your drumming.
Scala - free software for creating retuning files.

https://www.amazon.com/Applying-Karnatic-Rhythmical-Techniques-Western/dp/1472451503

https://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Timbre-Spectrum-William-Sethares/dp/1852337974

https://www.amazon.com/Music-Arabs-Book-Paperback/dp/1574670816

(also this: https://www.scribd.com/document/46051124/Arab-Music-Theory-in-the-Modern-Period)

I can recommend you more, but there is no point - Indian pitch scale/melody theory is more primitive version of Arabic (in a way - Indians use way more gliding and bending and other scales, but you get the point), traditional pentatonic music of Eastern Asia is elementary, while the Indian drumming book cover anything you can possibly learn about rhythm. Develop your ears with any pitch training software (you can make your own files for microtonal training), listen to all kinds of music and you will progress fast.

(This guy has 2 volumes on African music theory and other books on related topics: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DG3YGDN/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i2)
"In the same way that I agree a completed track can be made in one's DAW by specifying a nearly infinite sequence of sine waves."

Western music theory is way more practical than this... you should have know this, if you knew any... (btw, you can decompose any sound in other type of simple functions, it's not just only sines; sometimes I wonder whether "magicians" like the guys from Celemony and similar aren't using any of these less known transforms)

 

Like I said - ugly hacks. It's far more practical to define one's pitch/rhythm relationships directly from the start, rather than always fudging them into something else. If your DAW doesn't understand tuning and complex time, you are barking up the tree from the beginning. The whole benefit of DAWs is supposedly the ease of editing that they facilitate. But that's practically a topic in itself.

THANK YOU for the book suggestions. I will look into these.

That has not been my experience. The terms and analysis can be useful, but I think it has some deeply dubious assumptions baked in at a foundational level. Western European rhythm tends to be rudimentary. Pitches are fine, but it all falls apart with rationalizations that certain sequences and combinations of them "make you feel" a certain way. So it's not a language, because there is no semantic layer of confirmable meaning, it's just a system of heavily-rationalized aesthetic conventions. Sure, it's useful if you buy into those rationalizations, or otherwise want to make music that sounds like that.

Ultimately, other musical traditions and systems are also going to be mere convention, so conceptual rigor only goes so far. If you don't feel and believe that chords "want to resolve" in some particular way, then Western European music might not be for you. YMMV. It is certainly not universal.

Harmonically, only sinusoids are "simple". But there are numerous transforms besides FFTs that one can decompose them with. I messed around with Walsh functions a bit years ago, but that was more as a deliberately less-fidelity effect.

 

I guess it's good for technique and an outside perspective, but it's often more about replaying other (finished) work than translating your ideas into sound, crucial "hearing" (imagining) before / while you play. It's not like an either / or, tho. Anything that involves practice is good. Just wonder whether playing polly-wolly-doodle will inspire anyone to play pia who hasn't already got the bug? (Also, I guess youtube is a bit less expensive tutor when ur still finding out which instrument(s) ya like, maybe?)

 

1 - DAWs don't understand any tuning - you retune the vsts, not the DAW... white and black keys are visual clues. It's not like there is a commercial need for a microtonal piano roll layout - you can find a tutorial how to make your own custom white and black keys or whatever piano roll you like for Reaper on their forums.
2. - Music theory doesn't have anything to do with feelings and prescriptions. It's just all the compositonal and PRACTICAL knowledge used in Baroque and Classical eras. If you study more you will get to Renaissance, 19-th -20th century Modernism, Medieval and Ancient + non-Western music. Then comes mathematical music theory which is the most deep and most speculative (still good enough to produce stuff that no DAW still has implemented - like syncing rubato rhythms in music software with steady tempos and other rhythmical shenanigans = G. Mazzola has written such examples in his big book on category theory/topology and music - "Topos of music" - it's very expensive, because Springer are cunts... "mathematics and computation in music" is another good series for advanced music theory.)

There are no golden rules outside of stylistic conventions, if you fail to use the Western or non-Western, or whatever is your personal theory, it's not theory's fault, it's all you.

 

@tooloud please don't leave the forum.

 

Try to read @foster911 music theory posts, and then do exactly the opposite.

You can also join a site such as Hooktheory.com and learn from the music of others.

 

Last edited: Sep 27, 2018

I'll stay until the beer runs out.

 

...out of WHERE?

 

If you want to make music (POP, ROCK, ... ELECTRONIC) you don't need to know much about the theory but if you want to play music (CLASSIC and JAZZ) , everything you get would be insufficient.

Making good music is complex and also multi-faceted. You don't have enough time to zero in on all of those dimensions as a single individual. Be economical in learning different stuff.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2018

My suggestion would be to learn to program by making kick/bass patterns in Ableton's piano roll (look it up) with built in Impulse drum kit and a simple vst synth such as Sylenth.
Fruity Loops (easier but possibly less rewarding long term) allows simple step sequence programming.
If u like step sequencing u could go old school and get a cheap Korg Electribe (120 euros ish 2nd hand)from ebay (any will do, can be used as a drum machine or synth for your band) and learn sequencing and synthesis/sampling that way.
No music theory required and lots of fun. No need to memorise scales, musicality comes naturally to humans, what sounds good to you counts at this point. Feedback from others along your journey will help with this.
Audio Technika headphones are great too, buy what you can afford (ATH m50) are great for a fairly flat response)
You dont need a soundcard unless you are recording instruments (buy something cheap from Mackie (ebay!) if you do), laptops one will do o.k for monitoring.
A windows 7 (best for free/cracked software) i3 or above laptop should be plenty of processing power for a beginner but u can probably ebay a second hand i5/i7 for 150 euros, with a years warranty if u are patient enough to check all the refurbished laptops for days!

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2018

Stop Dreaming and just DO IT... That's how it starts. Then, as your "doing it", you can dream to create more. Always remember to do what sounds good to you ...Some of the most famous artists fell into fame not caring about conformity. Just play what you play, and create a genre invention that makes you happy. In the end, and life is too short to forget this ...You are the ONE that makes you smile

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2018

I'm not sure how to advise on this matter. I grew up with a really ordinary electronic piano and a Roland SH-3A. I had no lessons but I learnt to program sounds and then copy synth leads from 70's albums. The piano was harder but a lot of Elton John songs were easy to copy. I wasn't very good but I played hundreds of gigs with little equipment and without realising it, one day I was "competent"..... This is a very different way to learning with a DAW and I can understand why it's overwhelming.

 

lol, it does more than that. FLSTUDIO with all plugins is €798.42. Bit expensive for "simple step sequence programming". Logic Pro X is £199.99 Ableton 10 Suite is EUR 599. etc

If it's good enough for Deadmaus.......

 

This is probably false, I've heard people making great stuff from it, sounding less programmed, and used as a primary DAW. There is a good chance you've heard their stuff on the radio before as well.

 

"Fruity Loops (easier but possibly less rewarding long term)"
I retract this, I am a long term ableton addict and not familiar with current FL but have tried it, and will still pick ableton over every DAW as it has worked well for me for a long time.
How to start? find something that makes a noise and have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!