How do i make this mix calculation, how many tracks before start clipping?

Discussion in 'Software' started by samsome, Apr 9, 2021.

  1. samsome

    samsome Producer

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    How do i make the mix calculation

    for example

    1) how many -3dbs tracks can i have before hitting 0

    2) how many -6dbs tracks can i have before hitting 0

    3) how many -9dbs tracks can i have before hitting 0

    is there any formula for this? it would also be great to also be able to calculate combination of the above for example to be able to guess "ok i can have 3 tracks -6db, and 2 tracks -9db and 1 track -3db and 4 tracks -5db before hitting 0 for example.

    thanks


    btw i guess i'm talking about RMS values? Or Peak? any i guess, just to get an idea
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  3. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Interesting question!
    And I have no idea! lol.
    But it will be relative to certain frequency ranges too.
    Like, when the bass and the kick happen at the same time, there will be a peak in the amplitude of certain frequencies.
    Hence why looking into frequency masking is useful.
    Obviously, if you had two bass line tracks the same on two different channels, then there is an exact mathematical formula for what happens.
    But with tracks of different frequencies, it will all be transient throughout the track.
    Probably.
    Uh, where's mod Noa when you need him! lol.
     
  4. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    Depends on many factors. Even phases.... Phases may cancel, sum or both (on different frequencies etc). Phases maybe offset from the center because of many factors, dc offset, its nature, bad equipment etc..... Many many factor.... You may add 2 tracks with -1dB and you may get -3dB....you may get phaser effect and so on....
     
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  5. Pipotron3000

    Pipotron3000 Audiosexual

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    you DOUBLE gain , you get 3 dB more

    So why "most" ppl aim a -18dB average per track ?
    Like Nebula input level ?

    2 track 3dB
    4 tracks 6dB
    8 tracks 9dB
    16 tracks 12dB
    32 tracks 15dB
    64 tracks 18dB

    So aiming at -18dB average mean you "aim" between 16 and 64 tracks average mix
    Witch is an "average" project size.
    Of course, it is not generic.

    But it helps understanding why aiming -18dB average per track is more optimized than -6dB.
    With -6dB average per track, you will need to lower a bunch of tracks/buses to avoid master bus clipping.
     
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  6. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    For a mix of different signals the simple answer, you can't, it's unpredictable.
     
  7. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Mh,
    [​IMG]

    Before anyone's going to ask, this goes for mono and stereo files.
     
  8. nctechno

    nctechno Ultrasonic

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    -6dB + -6dB = 0 but only if same frequency, 6 dB is double amplitude, 3 dB is double power but thats rather irrelevant for producing
     
  9. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Maybe I misunderstand your usage of "producing", but isn't it relevant when using two tracks of the same bassline and amping one of them?
     
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