Help with Yamaha HS7s

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by EAR TO LEARN, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. EAR TO LEARN

    EAR TO LEARN Kapellmeister

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    Ok, so basically I recently bought a pair of Yamaha HS7s as I heard so many rave reviews about them and also because they were just about in my price range. I have them sitting on some monitor pads on a 'glorious workbench' studio desk Link here > https://www.thomann.de/gb/glorious_workbench_black.htm

    The problem is I make hip hop/grime music which as you know has a ton of low end information and I can't help but think that I may have bought monitors with too small a woofer. Either that or my room is so messed up that I simply can't hear a clear bass response. Could anybody shoot me some ideas, be it with my room or the monitors themselves...

    It should be worth noting that there are zero stores around me where I could test before I buy, and in my state of health, treking so far out is not an option at the moment so I rely on (loads) of reviews from well learned people.

    I guess my questions are...Should I stick with the HS7s? Upgrade to the HS8s or other monitors for more low end response? Or are there any tips for helping me with my bedroom studio? Thank you all in advance for any feedback...This site is incredible
     
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  3. McRoi

    McRoi Newbie

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    I have HS8s with HS10 subwoofer, problem solved. I like it loud and pumping. But I had HS8s without sub for many years and I managed ok. Maybe try to mix in lower volume?
     
  4. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    @earn to learn If you are in a small untreated room you dont need a larger set of speakeers. Also, a subwoofer is only going to make matters worst. In that price range the H7 are pretty decent. You want your reference monitors to provide you with a balanced frequency response across the spectrum. You don't want a pair of reference monitors with an accentuated low end because the end result would be a mix that translate poorly to a regular set of speakers. First, make sure that their placement is right. Next, you just need to become familiar with your H7s. You need to learn them. In fact, that goes with any speaker. Having a $3000 pair of monitors is not going to turn any engineer into Bob Clearmountain. Learn to work with what you have.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  5. Gwydion

    Gwydion Ultrasonic

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    I have the H7s as well. As McRoi mentioned, you will need a Subwoofer to have an idea about the low end. Your music has to work in Clubs with big woofers. I have a presonus Temblor T10 which has a foot switch for easily bypassing the sub. I'm on EDM which is a similar genre bass-wise. I wouldn't be able to work without a Subwoofer. Plus it is much more fun. I completely disagreee to what The Pirate said. And Bob Clearmountain isn't known for producing Hip Hop and/orGrime:bleh:
     
  6. EAR TO LEARN

    EAR TO LEARN Kapellmeister

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    Thanks for ther reply. I think I'm gonna give it a month with them to get used to them. I'm starting to think it's my room. I'm listening to songs with a focus on bass i.e giggs - cut up bag for example and the bass is fairly weak...also any tips on calibration, I don't have an spl meter yet. I have the monitors set up to +4dB (halfway) I even trimmed the highs by -2dB and not much difference.
     
  7. Always Grateful

    Always Grateful Ultrasonic

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    This will tell you all you need to know https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+adjust+your+yamaha+hs

    Theses Monitors are Godfathers
     
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  8. philkizer

    philkizer Member

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    You need a subwoofer. It sounds like you are expecting the monitors to produce low end sounds in the same way some consumer speakers do.

    Once you get a subwoofer, play some of your favorite sounding songs with the kind of bass you like and use those as reference tracks to get your sound as close to them as you would like it. What you'll find is that they way your favorite songs sound in a club, car, or on consumer speakers, sound different on professional monitors and subwoofer intended for mixing. You don't need a whole lot of low end in your mix for it to go a long way in a club.
     
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  9. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    I have this problem in my room. I've got KRK 8's and the KRK 10" sub. I can tell you that the sub will give you more low end information, but your room will swallow it as it is also swallowing the bass from your HS-7's. Focus on room treatment first if calibration doesn't help. I've tried calibrating with both software and a reference mic (Sonarworks Reference and Behringer ECM8000) as well as ringing the room with a 32 band eq, a sine wave sweep, and setting levels using the ECM8000 and a software metering plugin.
    I found the eq tends to smear the area's I'm having trouble with. I suspect due to phase shifts. Sonarworks yielded better results, but I do analog summing through a board, tube preamp, and hardware compressor. I kept forgetting to turn it off during bounce sessions so I feel it doesn't really fit my workflow.
    My plan is to do some room treatment. I'll start with bass traps of some type. Maybe the foam one's to begin with.
    In the meantime, I have to sanity check my mixes by listening in various environments. I put some subs in my truck and reference low end there. I listen on normal consumer stereo systems and soundbars that I have available to me for depth and clarity. It's a kind of back and forth solution, but my mix translation to other systems has improved as well as it is training my ear to work with what I have.
    So I am in agreement with the advice from @The Pirate. Learn what you have and work from there.
    Just thought I'd share my experience with this.
     
  10. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    If your room is small [3x4m?], and especially if it's untreated, it is far better to invest in a good pair of headphones for assessing bass response, than a subwoofer. Subwoofer will only create problems as there's not enough space for bass to spread. Resulting phase cancellation will only make the problem worse. Open headphones like Sennheiser HD650 or HD600 will do great, or some other open or semi-open ones, e.g. Beyerdynamic DT990 [open] or 880 [semi-open], AKG K701 [open], or even AKG K240 [semi-open] will do just fine. :wink:

    If your room is big, like 7x10m or bigger, then invest into some bass traps, treat the corners first, then facing wall and side walls, and buy Yamaha HS8S or HS10 sub. Yes, HS8S will do just great, too. :wink:

    Don't trim your highs on HS7 [set to 0] and set the low cut at 80Hz [maybe 100Hz with HS7] on the HS sub if you decide to buy it.

    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  11. vkris

    vkris Ultrasonic

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    From askaudio:
    "Like all near-field monitors, the low end tends to roll off pretty dramatically from 75 Hz and below, which is why I’d recommend a subwoofer for a 2.1 full-spectrum configuration."

    From what they said, it seems to me that you can not expect much of anything below 75 Hz...
     
  12. Evo

    Evo Kapellmeister

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    Just use headphones to work with low frequencies.
     
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  13. EddieXx

    EddieXx Rock Star

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    with no condescending tone, you may risk doing the "rookie classic" in case you are a beginner, start worrying about all sorts of things that won't make any difference to you actual music creation. the day you make releasable stuff you will be sending that to someone who knows mixing and mastering, in a pro environment, a label or paying for the services. with headphones as reference will enable you to produce with practically any speakers

    but still i would say get the 8s. why?
    because you'll like to hear those few hz extra it comes with, and i agree with Sinewave subs will not make you any favours. with 8s though you will hear a difference, you will notice those few hz in the low bass and it will make you life easier when producing. its among the few things that I agree can be seen as "needed" when starting up, specially in urban/dance, so if it keeps awake at night get them

    be prepared though, if your room is not treated you can be hearing all sorts of crazy shit, peaks from hell in the 60Hz, 80Hz etc that will drive you nuts, reflections from your desk and more. so keep the monitors close and dont play your music loud, that will alleviate/attenuate most sonic problems a bit.

    to have at least a bit below 40hz is (to me) essential for getting a good feel of kicks and bass and with the help of headphones you will get by, then you can get bass traps and basic room treatment in the future. but a humble tip, remember, your aim is probably to produce music, not become a pro mixer or a mastering expert. to produce you need a bare minimum, you problems are not gear, your problems should be melodies, arrangement and sound/instrument choice in general
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  14. EAR TO LEARN

    EAR TO LEARN Kapellmeister

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    I understand your point and in fact agree with you, however this isn't just a case of 'I need more bass' I barely have any in general, the entire low end is lifeless.I understand a bad worker blames his tools. This was simly a querie on the monitors. In the OP I make the assumption that it could be my room. I'm certain now it is that...Even the songs on apple music that have been mixed and mastered sound so dull and lifeless in that low region it's annoying. I respect your input and as I said agree with you. I will be making changes to my enviroment in the coming weeks and months...Cheers for the input
     
  15. fraifikmushi

    fraifikmushi Audiosexual

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    If you have barely any bass with 7" woofers, you're doing it wrong.
     
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  16. EddieXx

    EddieXx Rock Star

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    i see, well it certainly sounds like its the room then. ive seen all sorts of weird things happening in untreated rooms. what is the position of your monitors, would be interesting to hear about the room, size, material of the walls, whats inside, monitor position. cheers
     
  17. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    That is correct.:like: There is a saying: your recording and mixing is only as good as the room in which they are done. Yet its import it is often overlooked in the process. You can't overcome acoustics with equipment. Tools can give us an advantage when working in bad acoustic environments, but they only do so much.
     
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  18. EddieXx

    EddieXx Rock Star

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    btw, I read the OP on the go in a bit of a hurry so, first sorry to hear about your health and also you were actually aware it could be the room to begin with, I missed that, my bad..

    anyhow, it would be really interesting to hear about how the room looks now because its really strange you dont get any bass. is it lifeless as in compared to what? to headphones?

    i assume you know that studio monitors can be very "dull", specially if you compare them to consumer headphones/speakers, your 7s will sound lifeless because with headphones you reach down to below 20hz or even lower, meanwhile your speakers go to only around 40+, that certainly is a huge difference, you feel no thump=lifeless (?)

    so maybe you are accustomed to lots of bass? and these "neutral" "plus small monitors kind of shocked you at first

    keep us updated :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  19. relexted

    relexted Kapellmeister

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    Fix your setup before you do the subwoofer.
    Fix your setup before you think about bass traps.
    Fix that standing wave..
    Try to google "studio monitor placement".
     
  20. EAR TO LEARN

    EAR TO LEARN Kapellmeister

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    So constructive, where do you get this wisdom? So much I can take from this comment
     
  21. DrumHead

    DrumHead Member

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    Your lack of bass is most likely caused from speaker placement - and room accoustics.

    -Avoid the Halfway Bass Null
    It just so happens, because of science and stuff, that bass frequencies experience a horrible null right at the halfway mark between two parallel surfaces. This means that at 50% of the height, length, or width of a room you will hear far less bass than is actually in the signal. If you tried to mix at this spot, you'd mix in way too much bass to compensate. This follows that the absolute worst spot for your head to be situated in is the dead middle of the room. It's like a super vacuum that eats all bass alive.


    Try to do some research on room set up. It really is important if u wanna get a decent translatable mix.:guru:
     
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