Hello everyone!

Don't know whether someone might have experience with the problem I am facing, and whether there is any help in addition to what I tried so far.
However, I decided to post here for possible tips/suggestion.

I am in the process of editing recordings from a grand piano (Steinway D), classical music. The piano has an intonation on the sharper, more metallic side of the sound scale, but this alone wouldn't be a remarkable problem.
The real problem is that the microphones caught a clanging/clanking that accompanies parts of the chords, especially in louder passages of course (but not only). One can notice the problem increasing with the piano's getting increasedly out of tune [which always slightly becomes audible after around half an hour or one hour since the last tuning (which was done twice a day during the session days)].
In terms of audio specs, one could speak of an extraordinarily high percentage of THD at this piano...

To clarify it (as a precaution): By far no overloading of preamps or A/D converters here, and the problem being present in all of the 4 microphones that were recording (two stereo pairs).
The problem comes from the piano, and was audible also by ear when playing.

Well, normal EQing can bring a certain amount of solution, but more help comes from a de-esser (in split-band mode and working on the higher frequencies).
On the other side, one cannot EQ and "de-ess" (here rather "de-harsh") beyond a certain limit in order not to make the recording sounding too dull. Ok, I can try to run an exciter (saturator) after the de-essing etc. to try to get some "new" overtone harmonics (out of the mid region) that might brighten up the previously "cleaned" region of upper mid and high frequencies; presumably mainly from the even harmonics.

BUT ALL THAT is only an uncomplete workaround, compared to if there would be a software mainly filtering out only the annoying THD.
Yes, I am aware of the fact that there won't be such a magical plugin. So I don't actually expect a hint to such a solution from your replies.
But perhaps one or two among you have experienced that problem, too, and could give some valuable advice.

Thanks a lot, indeed, for possible comments and help!!

 

Uploading the sound on your Soundcloud and linking it here might help us better understand the cause of the problem and its solution

 

you can try cleaning the clanking out using izotope rx4 and the gradual tuning issues with celemony melodyne.
then try a dynamic eq for the harsh tones
its not a ideal solution as if you noticed the clanking before you recorded you should of really sorted the problem there and then before recording.

the old you cant polish a turd

hope this helps

 

This is a tough one to solve, and there's no single solution for it. It would have to be listened to and then there would have to be lots of experimenting with it. Send it over and let me see what I can do with it.

 

Thank you a lot, audioplg, for the suggestion concerning RX cleaning.
YES, that's it, spectral cleaning will most probably help, hadn't thought of that so far. Very laborious way, but worth the effort.
Very helpful, thank you.

As for the polishing of turds: Yes, of course, garbage in-garbage out.
I noticed the problem on location, as I wrote before. Not being aware of it in time wasn't the issue (perhaps I wasn't fully aware of its extent on the recording and how annoying it is in certain parts). The problem was that you can't exchange a 9ft. concert grand within half a day, to remain within the time schedule of the hired recording location. Not to speak of the question whether the replacement grand piano (if at all available quickly) would be of better tone quality, and not to speak of the cost for such an operation. There was a 2nd Steinway D there, on location, but tonally worse. And I'm not in the league of Alfred Brendel + Co. If THEY don't like a piano on location, they travel to Hamburg to pick one Model D at Steinway's which then would be express-shipped to the recording location (just to be also refused by Brendel there because the sound of the chosen Steinway now seemed different to him, compared to when he chose it in Hamburg...).
What I missed, was checking the piano before contractually scheduling the recordings. Why did I miss it? Because I had done three earlier CD recordings there, on that same piano, and knew it as extraordinarily fine Model D Steinway. Or better: I thought I knew the piano. Meanwhile, they had exchanged the piano's hammers completely, and a new piano technician has a different intonation concept (you may know, new hammers have to be intonated from scratch). So the formerly great piano still has wonderful tonal aspects, but also the mentioned big problems...

Tuning is no problem, the piano going slightly (!) out of tune is a normal thing in such recording sessions, with that concentrated strain on the piano (of course dependent also on the repertoire which is played). It is scarcely annoying on recordings and nothing having to be corrected by editing (if at all that would be sufficiently possible with such complex sounds; for each tone of the complex harmonies, you have a different amount of being out of tune).
I just mentioned it in the context of describing the clanking, because the clanking problem occurred least when the piano was freshly tuned.

Thanks again!!

 

The "clanking" of a piano is a very "romantic" addition to the sound... very rare in today`s recordings.
I personally enjoy listening to it... it gives that extra immersion to the listener and fills the atmosphere with authenticity.

Think twice if You should remove it, and listen to few more opinions in regard
...post a short clip with and without a "clank" and see what listeners enjoy more.

 

@Rhodes:
Thank you for this interesting point of view.

Well, for me personally, the clanking wouldn't be a thing I would identify with Romanticism. To my mind, the Romantic style in terms of piano sound is more connected with a tendency towards the less bright, more warm, velvety, soft tonal side. As far as I know and have experienced in concertizing on modern and historic pianos, the tendency in piano sound during the last century has gone clearly and constantly towards an increase in brilliance and sound power, and therefore to a certain extent, towards a certain "coldness" of sound. If one has the chance to play on pianos of around 1900 or 1920 that are really well-serviced (perhaps renovated), chances are good that he/she will meet a piano sound that is --compared to modern pianos-- softer, smoother, more round and full, and easier to modulate, shape and lead (without the risk of overdoing or getting into a sharp, unpleasant tonal range).
So I would regard that "modern" sound being more inclined to clanking "by-products" than the historic or even "Romantic" piano sound ideal.

However, I'm not sure whether we speak about the same amount of clanking. A certain, very small amount of it, can be heard in some recordings, certainly. And to my ears, it isn't annoying, but perceived as a natural overtone timbre of an energetic piano attack.
But here, in my case, it is definitely too much, and sometimes also present in non-energetic, softer music passages.
As often, the poisonous effect results from the dose...
But even if this would be felt as pleasing by some people (which I very much doubt in this case), an engineer would still have to take into account the modern standards of audio production, with its flawless perfection requirements. Whether "Romantic" or not, if that "THD" is contrary to today's sound standards, the production should better avoid it, in order to find a label willing to publish the recordings.

Nevertheless, thanks again for your comment.

 

Thank you very much to all of you who commented the issue and offered help.
I very much appreciate your interest and effort.

Spectral cleaning can help, as I tested meanwhile, and be it only to give the exact hint to the right frequencies to work on, by means of dynamic EQ or De-essing.
I think I will be able to treat the recordings sufficiently to suppress the clanking to an acceptable level.