I am experimenting with a new live setup, but i'm stuck with a special task, maybe someone here knows a solution for:

There is:
1 guitar
3 amps
~14 pedals (in 5-6 loops)
2 multi fx (midi)

Goal is to switch em all with just one controller.

There are option by Boss, Moen and others, with lots of loops, midi, tuner out, programmable, etc.
But there is always just one dedicated output. And i need 3 outs. Assignable.

I could hijack the sends of some loops, but it would just interrupt. And i want to have the signal sent to 3 diff. amps simultaneously, with diff. fx in front. Switchable. As presets.

All those controllers are great and let me chose the loop, switch the amps channel, and change the program of my midi device. But then i need to assign the output to one of the amps. For each amp individually, of course.
Something like a 3-channel version of a controller, a matrix, or a mixing module inside a controller, or something like that.
There are so many wet/dry players out there, there must be a multi-out solution that fits.
Oh, and it should stay below a gazillion of euros/dollars.

I'm not sure if i made everything clear enough, so feel free to ask about details.

Any tip or help is very much appreciated!

 

Better draw your plan.
Because i already don't understand what you mean by 14 pedals in 5-6 loops, as you have only 3 amps (with 3 loops).
Do you mean 5-6 combinations ?

 

It means, 14 pedals arranged in 5 or 6 loops, connected and controlled by the switcher/controller i am looking for. These units usually have 4, 6, or even 8 loops to connect your fx to, controllable with its switches/presets.

Shortly after starting the thread, i found the Voodoo Labs GCX, which looks like it does nearly everything i need.
Does anybody know if sth like this exists in a more pedalboard-friendly size and power-consumption?

 

If you take a switcher into consideration (to switch between your amps) this one is way cheaper.

 

There are some cheaper MIDI audio switch
https://reverb.com/fr/item/59784119-rolls-rfx-patchwork-rp93s-loop-midi-switcher-4-channels

Sry ... only switcher

 

This is what things like mainstage or even a DAW are used for. Your ins go in you send them out where every you want and you just use your pedals as you would, the routing is by the interface as it is now a routing matrix. You just need to create scenes (clips) with different routings as far as ins and outs are concerned and use a pedal or touch controller to engage them.

If you know someone in theater, FOH for concerts or broadcast they can explain it best.

 

I don't mean to undermine anything you are doing or whatever, it's just I suddenly reminded of this meme and thought want to share it here for fun. I'm also that maniac that used pedal switcher once and it's totally fine. I don't have anything against you @Prendergast nor I can offer any help since I moved away from that life, but this screenshot is just too good to not share it here. haha

 

Thanks, everybody!

But i should have explain it better, cause everyone seems to misunderstand it.
Normally, guitarists should know exactly what i mean, i thought

No Avenger: thanks, but this does not work at all
itsfine: thanks, but this can work as a splitter OR a looper, but not both. also 4 loops only.
jmoutton: thanks, but does not seem very practical to me, to use 3 amps and 6 fx loops via a DAW on stage

 

Thanks Stevie!
All is fine, i'm old and grumpy myself.
I played more than 20 years with a Marshall stack and my guitar. Nothing else!
It was the Hardrock side. And it f_ckin rocked!
Now theres a ... well ... Pink Floydish side, or sth like this.
I want to find out what this has to offer.
And as usual, i don't go only half way.
So far, i have to say: it's worth it!

 

I think I understand what you mean to do and I think you are overthinking it when it comes to how a DAW would handle the switching. It's would be basically the same thing as the what the Voodoo Labs GCX is doing.

You are not using the DAW as a DAW just as matrix switcher to control an interface with ins and outs. You signal loops all go in, you have as many outs as you need and you are just using a remote control a pedal that can send midi or a touch controller like launchpad or a small keyboard to launch scenes which are non are the non linear routing you've created as routing presets.

Think of this as the way a DAW controls lights on stage rather than the way a DAW is traditionally used with a transport and mouse. You are basically just using the mixer function of the DAW. The only difference between the Voodoo Labs GCX and the DAW+interface solution is that creating the presets requires less menu diving and you can manipulate the signal if so choose to. The only difference between the Voodoo Labs GCX and the DAW solution is that the DAW can handle more ins and outs. 7 audio ins (6 FX loops and 1 Dry) signal and 3 outs is a breeze for a modern 8x8+2 rack interface and it opens up the possibility of signal merging/resplitting and circular routing (be careful with feedback loops) if so desired.

You yourself would not be interacting with DAW itself in anyway other than pushing a button and recalling a preset to load a scene.

I had read some article or more probably newsletter about U2's Edge using DP to do something similar to what you are trying to do but with racks and amps post pedal board with DP and was scratching my head a bit as well because it just seemed like using a bulldozer to hammer in nails, and it was overly complex. First time I saw something like this in use up close was more than a decade ago on a Roger Waters setup, DP was being used to control the lights, sound FX, and the theatrical aspects - flying pigs etc... as well as many of the switching audio between different amp stacks and offstage miced amps to the area's FOH mixer.

Anyway, I hope you find something that works for you. Seems like a good little puzzle and I am sure you'll get something that will be fun and awesome. We live in crazy times when contemplating something like this and realizing it extremely possible and can lead to some very interesting and creative sounds.

 

Just for further clarification, thats what i play as a setup so far:

Amp A -> Engl Screamer Half Stack, 2 Channels
Loop 1 -> Reverb, Delay, Chorus, Synth9
Loop 2 -> Distortion

Amp B -> PRS Archon Half Stack, 2 Channels
Loop 3 -> Dream 65
Loop 4 -> Booster, Distortion, Octaver

Amp C -> Fryette Poweramp, 2 Channels, Cab
Loop 5 -> Overdrive, IK ToneX Pedal
Loop 6 -> Ethos OverdriveAmp, Reverb

And additionally a multifx in each FX loop of amp b and amp c.
Loop 1 and 2 are in front of amp a, 3 and 4 in front of b, and 5 and 6 in front of c.


Now for example, hitting button 1 on my foot controller shall:
Activate Amp A, Channel 2, Loop 2
Mute Amp B
Activate Amp C, Channel 1, Loop 5, Multifx Preset #3

and hitting button 2 on my foot controller shall, for example:
Activate Amp A, Channel 1, Loop 1
Activate Amp B, Channel 1, Loop 3, Multifx Preset #12
Activate Amp C, Channel 2, Loop 6, Multifx Preset #2

Thats the plan.

 

Thanks, jmoutton!

I know what you mean. When i first tried some ampsims live, i used reaper, an interface, and an easy footcontroller, just to test the water.
I didn't like the "feeling" of it. Maybe i should give that daw-way another chance. Maybe try Steinberg VST live, to integrate the virtual and the reallife fx.

Hmmm ... so many possibilities, so little time.

 

Sound like a lot fun and I like your taste in Amplifiers.

I am not a fan of amp sims for stage work, and I wouldn't load down the DAW with them if I was planning on doing what you are doing. I would just use it as router for a long while before getting into Edge style hybrid weirdness and most likely $$$$$$$$. Start simple and build up to it so that things like latency and CPU load are not an issue.

I don't think the complexity of the matrix matters to the DAW as long as you have an interface with sufficient ins and outs you can use busses and sends to route, split and group whatever you want to wherever you want. If there is enough money involved duplication and a Radial switcher would also be prudent.

 

This helped.
Well, there is a solution sadly, it's illegal to buy it, you can only hire it. It's called stage tech.

 

25yrs here

Spoiler: Show-Off Stuff, just skip

starting from multi-fx Japanese Zoom GFX to Boss ME to Boss GT series, then to the crazy BOSS MIJ obsession with OD1, DF2 Super Feedbacker, Turbo Overdrive 2, variations of DS1 & DM2 Black label, Blue label etc madness then moved on to RC4558P TS9, TS808 (owned 10 at one point, haha) + LM308 ProCo Rat era with 80s-90s EHX pitch shifting, looping vintages I don't even understand, to boutique Klon and its clones, 20 variation of Muff pedals Ramhead, Russian & clones to early days of JHS, Empress, Strymon with 3 Pedal Train XL and at one point owned 120 pedals with switchers and whatnot with a room full of vintage tube amps (still have them and been selling them at bloodsucking price slowly) + rackmount ADA MP1, 3TM & Classic, Triaxis, Tech 21 also with Radial switchers, those George L's and custom Mogami somemore, wasted thousands on them. During my touring days, I carried stuff the same amount as the drummer and always bring friends to help. haha

and now...

A cute Helix HX Stomp and some amp sim plugins Forgot the last time I turn my Plexi or Twin Reverb on. When I need amp, it's just the JC120 because it's faster and next to me, plus it takes the Helix nicely and I don't play in a band no more

Everything else is collecting dust in the store room, and I'm happier and my back not hurting anymore. Weirdly enough I never had my Pink Floyd days, I don't like them that much except for Syd Barret which I believe one of the best rhythm guitar player ever, and doesn't need any guitar pedals at all.

I think I finally realized I failed to make it big enough to hire a guitar-tech (No Avenger is right) and decided to move on, at one point I'm the No1 Line6 hater! haha, I'm just happy to see others still being passionate about it. Hope you can get a guitar tech one day because I can assure you it's the ultimate solution.

 

Last edited: Jun 11, 2023

Haha .. thanks for your answer, Stevie.
I left a heart cause i read the spoiler
I had a JC120 in the 80s. And the corresponding haircut.
Now the amp and the hair are both gone.
But the best rhythm guitar player are Kralle Krawinkel and Malcolm Young. No doubt.

 

The Radial JX44 amp-switcher and JR5 pedal should work like you are describing.

https://www.radialeng.com/product/jx44-v2
https://www.radialeng.com/product/jr-5

Not super cheap, but you can probably find used ones for much cheaper.

(Starts at 1:08 in the video)

EDIT:
Found this one while looking around a bit: Morley Gold Series ABC
1 input, 3 outputs. Can't get simpler than. You won't be able to use the same pedalboard for all of the amps, but if you are planning to have an indenpendent pedalboard for each of the amps, this is probably the simplest and cheapest option.

 

Last edited: Jun 12, 2023

Helix is what's up. No need to H8

 

With a rig like that, you really need to get into a Bradshaw system. I still have one in the main room. http://www.customaudioelectronics.com
The Voodoo Labs GCX is basically a Bradshaw clone. There are a few more on the market as well.

 

ADULT SOLUTION ALERT!!!!

Sound Sculpture Switchblade. Comes as a rack or a pedal. Not cheap, but the adult solution. Has built in LFOs too to do some stuff you haven't even imagined yet. Peak sound quality, full midi control and built like a tank.

https://www.soundsculpture.com/products

If you don't like that idea then do what I did....

Get a digital mixer with midi control like a Yamaha 01v or something. It would be a pain to move around but it will have insane routing functionality and midi control. And 4 layers of 16 motorized faders so you can quickly grab stuff and make adjustments in panning and levels. Also it has a routing setup for quad or 5.1 and that could be fun with a "guitar" rig. Having presets of all of your effect balances for each song in a live set would be very nice too. I loved being able to re-route my rack with the push of a button. Parallel stuff to serial, serial to parallels, mult'ing direct guitar signals into all sorts of signal chains instantly.

Having those trim knobs at the top of each channel lets you get your signal to noise levels optimized and properly drive all your effects units.

Whilst recording you can send and receive midi data of the fader positions and mutes and solos, so it really becomes an extension of your instrument. You can set up many channels of random midi data and hit play at random spots to create random presets in your rig by altering the fader levels for each chain. You can create midi loops of moving faders and play through those as your rig modulates by itself.

The motorized faders snap to position when you change presets and show you how much of what is going on in your setup. It is real luxury.

If you have old school rack dsp boxes like H3000 or Lexicon PCM80 and such you can also send program change messages to change presets on those boxes when you change mixer presets. Total rack guitar guy heaven. Probably a lot of modern pedals have midi now too.

I had one for exactly this reason, but just for recording guitars/synths including all my outboard rack DSP and loopers and pedalboards/amps. It was also great for mixing direct signals with cab mics. Switching instruments was easy too because I could make presets for acoustic guitars, bass or modular synths. I think you can get one with additional 4 in and out Analog Expansion cards in it for about $400-500.

There are tons of built in effects in the O1v like reverb, chorus, delay and all that, but the EQs and Compressors are super useful. There are also precise track delays that add really amazing additional width to your multi amp setup.

The best part is that it fits in a 19" rack with a sliding rack drawer so it will pull right out of your rack, or it has rack rails so you can mount it on top of one of those mixer racks or even vertically facing out at you. I liked the sliding rack drawer because usually I just needed to tweak the faders. If you are a musician on the move you can put a shelf on the highest part of a rack with the mixer and then have 2-3 sliding drawer shelves right below for your complex pedals velcro'd down and ready to be slid out for tweaking.