Help needed: "All I Wanna Do" tambourine, as MIDI file * SOLVED *

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by FiX, Oct 8, 2019.

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  1. FiX

    FiX Kapellmeister

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    * S O L V E D * * SORTED * * ALL GOOD *

    Dear frenz,

    Having played guitar forever and keyboards for a few years now I manage to be rather self supporting at home recording, yet at this point I find myself in need of expert help concerning the creation of a rather specific MIDI tambourine pattern for Pro Tools.

    What I would like to end up with is a continous, basic, tambourine like in "All I Want To Do", that old song by Sheryl Crow. No fills or frills, just that laid-back ching-a ching-a ching-a ching. I confess straight up I do not know how it is done. Especially the wavy back-and-forth motion which would be key to "realism" I cannot guess how to go about modeling.

    My intention is to use that "All I Want To Do" type tambreen like a click track, so it would have to be adjustable for tempo. I have "got" Utopia Pro Tools 12.5 and Addictive Drums 2, as well as a few percussion libraries for Kontakt. A correct MIDI basis (file) is what I am looking to make or find.

    Please boost me here. Any help greatly appreciated by yours truly,

    FiX

    Baxter's comment, below, right on the dot! Thanks for the input.

     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  3. Futurewine

    Futurewine Rock Star

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    The first 5 seconds from this track is clean to sample. Maybe extract and use melodyne to convert it from audio to midi. You can then use the midi as basis. Just suggestion :shalom:

     
  4. FiX

    FiX Kapellmeister

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    Thank you, @Futurewine, for your creative suggestion. Perhaps I should point out I have no experience at all doing that kind of thing with Melodyne and such. All I know how to do is hit "Record" or "Play" in Pro Tools which I pretty much use as an old-fashioned multitrack recorder. I do know how to compose basic drum accompaniment, using my piano as MIDI input. So really what I need is instructions, or perhaps an example, of how a meaningful tambourine should be concocted in that fashion.

    Thanks though, preciate it much. :guru:
     
  5. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator

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    +1
    in ableton you can slice the 5 secounds sample and find out the pattern - its freakin magic.
     
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  6. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Why not just play a tambourine and record it?
     
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  7. SmokerNzt

    SmokerNzt Platinum Record

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  8. Aileron

    Aileron Rock Star

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    Maybe you can have this guy sit in on the session:

    Ringo Tambourine.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  9. FiX

    FiX Kapellmeister

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    Sure but I want it as MIDI so as to be able to use it as a substitute for default click track and be able to use it with different tambreens now and then, as well as expand on it when I feel like. Versatility really.
    Thank you @Baxter and @SmokerNzt, good one, there we go. :hifive:
     
  10. FiX

    FiX Kapellmeister

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    Wait a minute! @SmokerNzt , did you just make this ??? THANKS, MAN! :thanks::invision:

    Edit:

    OK I understand what it is now, I'm getting it sorted, will study and possibly work from it, muting some parts but retaining the tambourine notes. :like:
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  11. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Best Answer
    Unlike clicktrack a tambourin usually starts its amplitude envelope before the beat, as it has a "slower attack" (the looser, the more ramping attack time). Same thing with shakers. Their max amplitude is usually at the beat or slightly behind it. It gets even more complicated if the tambourine has groove, swing, hang, wonkyness, etc. If you edit a straight tambourine to be in time, the first hit is usually very attacky. The cure is to leave the end of the loop as a ramp-up towards the first hit (usually you cross-fade this part).
    If you are dealing with single-shot tambouring washes, the overall tempo will be shifted because of the ramp time.

    This is why a tambourine "click-track" is not generally used as a guide track, as it sets the feeling of the whole track, which is a bit off from your regular (global) clicky metronome. Editing can become a PITA. In worst case scenarios it can be like building a house on a sand foundation (sometimes that works, other times not).

    This is pretty standard stuff if you have worked long enough in the field and I thought I'd just might fill you in if you didn't know this already.

    You can still use tamb as guide-track, but it's better to record a tight tambourine loop (in different tempi, maybe 5 BPM apart), that has that amplitude ramp at the end, and use these as your guide track (stretched to nearest tempo).
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  12. FiX

    FiX Kapellmeister

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    That sure makes sense @Baxter , I readily agree I do not know enough concerning the matter but I see the point you make very clearly. Thank you. I've come from regular reel-to-reel recording to DAW since just over two years or so and I've hardly ever (if ever) played onto a click-track myself. I'm 64. Always done freehand playing & singing, my acoustic guitar accompaniment is steady as Ringo. Right now however I want to build a rather layered production of an old song of mine which requires a time base to accomodate for Addictive Drums and the sync'ing of (synthetic) bass line, piano, Hammond, and strings. So this time around I must use a beat guide, but it has to be something sufficiently percussive yet musical sounding so as not to hamper the feel of "untethered" playing. Then I thought of the tambourine but I do now realize the difficulty you point out. Another solution might be to center the tempo guide around cow bell, with something like maraccas surrounding it. The deal is I can't stand the harshly unnatural 4 bit electronic "cooking timers" that normally make up default click-tracks. I just hate those. Also I'll need to be able to adjust the tempo at any time during the creative process by +/- 1 or 2 bpm as the developing work will have it. This has to remain subtly flexible, I do not mean time stretch, just adjustable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  13. Nigol

    Nigol Member

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  14. Nigol

    Nigol Member

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    you can download EZD2 Toontrack they have a tambourine,they have a free trial also,you have a keyboard so it's easy
     
  15. Misterguywick

    Misterguywick Producer

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    you assume everyone has access to anything. every single time you say why not do this or that. why wouldn't they do it if they had it.. like for real?
     
  16. FiX

    FiX Kapellmeister

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    @Nigol , hi, sure I've got EZD2 among other instruments/libraries containing a plethora of tambreens, what I specifically meant was an example MIDI file to work from, learning how 'realistic' tambourine programming might actually be done. Not quite as straightforward as one may be inclined to think. But thanks for the head-up.

    P.S.: jij koopt zeker al jouw muziekinstrumenten bij LIDL? :winker:
     
  17. Nigol

    Nigol Member

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    Ok got it.

    P.S. ben je gek ik betaal helemaal nergens voor
     
  18. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    No SM58 or tambourine?
    [​IMG]
     
  19. FiX

    FiX Kapellmeister

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    Hi @Baxter , well it's not that often forum members of some fame will actually throw us a selfie, but congrats on your creativity :like:.

    I'm a pretty accomplished tambourine player (if I say so myself albeit with no support apparently) and it's fun to do while not even the easiest to record. For clarity there's a pair of early '70s Neumann KM86i small diaphragm mics I have access to, although SM57s (which BTW I'll use for just about anything) have also worked very well. Now - paying heed to some points of advice in your earlier reply, the Best Answer by a long shot (thank you) I have meanwhile settled on a bit of a hybrid solution, meaning a somewhat percussive MIDI basis with a hand-beaten tamb on top, which allows some BPM +/- adjustment and of course serves my purpose really well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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