Sorry,I forget to reply to your message...
How do you use the Multiclock,please ?
Which DAW do you use,is it midi-slave (to the Multiclock) ?
And can you send midi notes and midi cc messages from your DAW and have your synths jitter-free synced ?

 

well that 48 sample buffer is a odd one to me as general consensus and from experiments i did years back with a card that you could type in the buffer sizes came to the conclusion that buffer sizes that are to the power of 2 are best ie 32,64,128,256.
further down the line when i was doing some stuff working with asio core i did find something regarding how the audio engine works in regard to audio data moved in chunks and that this is where the issues where stemming.
but all that info is irrelevant to me these days so it got binned from memory.

i did think at one point that that 48 buffer setting was reporting the the safety buffer but the ucx has a fixed safety buffer of 32 samples over usb and its not reported in the control panel.


"WDM" is for how your rme is presented to windows own streaming driver that setting determines how it shows up.

From seeing your control panel DirectMusic MIDI must not be available on the fireface/uc series rme interfaces like it is on my Hammerfall DSP/HDSPe Series.


unfortunately your pictures only tell me one thing.
that if you time align the first note the second one is early.
which then makes me asume that the first note is late and that there may be you need to pre record a bar or two before the sequence your recording.

but that is just an assumption from the info you have given.

the reason for wanting the project was to look at all the notes then compare them to each other, not to the midi notes on the time line.
then i could analyze it in more detail maybe disregard some small variance like if every 4th note was a fraction out due to difference in the voices on your 4 voice korg ect....



so all i can do is really pull suggestions out of the hat.

E-RM is a great device but its main propose is Midi clock, ie if you have a like the roland tr-808 and ruining a sequence of its internal sequencer
and need to sync it with another groove box synth that as its own internal sequencer.
or using with modular gear.
you can also use it as a midi router/spliter

But your sending midi notes to your gear and there for midi clock (http://midi.teragonaudio.com/tech/midispec/clock.htm) is not your issue.
there for i first and foremost think you have a settings issue.

are you sending midi clock and midi time code to your synths when you set them up in S1?
midi time code will be sending a constant pulse to keep and external sequencers tempo in time with the song 24 times per quarter note so the faster your tempo the more frequent it is.
if you dont need it dont send it as any time there is a midi note on message and the clock message one has to give way to the other.
its usually very small timing differences but from memory used to keep anything that required midi sync on separate ports.
(this being specific to your set-up in S1)

are you using audio drop out protection and is it that messing your midi timing up a?
(this being specific to your set-up in S1)


id run your audio buffer at one of the powers ie 32,64,128 ect.. yes it will add delay to the recorded audio but it will be constant.
so can be compensated for with track delay and this would be common across the different daws you tried.

how is your pc set up?

is it over clocked, have you disabled c-states in bios (these down clock your cpu when its not working to save power)

whats your dpc latency like, also is your windows upto date as the May 2019 Update (windows 10 1903) caused dpc latency spikes and you need to be upto date or have KB4505903 installed to reduce this.

personally i think your problems are settings related and would still peruse that route has you could easily go out and spend £1000 on some marketing hype midi miracle interface and have worse timing problems than now and if you bought a £30 one better performance.
due to the pc compatibility lottery that we all play, but what with your problems manifesting over 4 different vendors midi hardware i find it hard that you haven't got one device that has stability.

i also recommend you have a look at this article
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/solving-midi-timing-problems
and try there test using your ucx and looping a din cable.

also i recommend you post on there forum under windows music and look out for any replies from "Pete Kaine" he has hands on experience with a lot more combinations of hardware than i can these days.
He dose the daw bench cpu benchmarks for TAFKAT and he helps a lot of people on there.

finally if you cant get it sorted due to setting then its back to the pc comparability lottery and trying a different midi interface at the most you should need something along the lines of a MOTU Midi Express XT that kind of price range for something with 8 ins and 8 outs.

but in regards to jitter it should only be tiny which is why you get people that want hardware synths and or sequencers as the tiny fluctuations add something to these people.
this also fueled the use of mpc groove quantize templates and even cubase having "DNA groove quantize" over the years.
this spat of jitter forum posts came about when we moved from using parallel printer ports or serial/com ports for our midi interfaces to usb.
and then came the marketing Hype magic devices.

midi is a protocol that is "just good enough" at the time it was conceived 30ish years ago.
by its nature it can Never be sample accurate the audio equivalent to midi's transmission rate would be to use 8bit 3,125hz sample rate even then it would take 3 samples to send a note on message and even though there are 16 midi channels on a single midi port they are bound to that one transmission path.

splurge over

 

Last edited: Sep 4, 2019

yes I know what is WDM.I've never seen and DirectMusic MIDI setting on the control panel nor in Totalmix FX.

Sorry,I thought you wanted some screenshot,because you said in your previous comment you weren't sure I was talking about jitter,you thought I was just talking about latency.

Believe me,I use midi synths since long years,it's jitter and all my synths have the same problem.But they haven't the same latency.
And I made hundreds tests (!) with the korg in monophonic mode.It's the worst of my synths in terms of midi performance.

I've tried to enable or disable this options,but no improvement.I've made dozens tests each of my synths.

But thanks for your input,I didn't know exactly what is midi timecode.

My friend,I think i've tried every setting doable in S1! Yes I've tried all different settings with or without dropout protection and different latencies in my UCX' control panel,but none of them is noticeable for the jitter issue...
Even with drop pout protection on the minimum setting and 512 or 1024 samples of latency I still have jitter.I'm crazy with this problem,like I said in one of my comments,I've spent one ENTIRE week,from 8:00 am to 6:00 pm (no lunch between) making all tests possible in S1 and tweaking my BIOS and checking my power options in Windows.I still have this problem.
I have the latest updates for WIN10 Pro ("pro",HAHAHA!!!)

No my cpu can't be OC.Yes C-state is disabled in my BIOS.

I already read this article some weeks ago,very interesting.

But here I don't understand what you mean.Since my DAW can't be midi slave,what is the point,please?

Thank you for the idea,I'll have a look there.

What jitter is acceptable ,according to you?
Because I often have 100 samples of jitter between some notes,up to 130,on one bar.For me it's way too much,at 44.1KHz,100 samples are 2,27 ms.Clearly audible.

I understand,I'm not the kind of guy buying any snale oil gadget,but at this time I'm actually seriously thinking about the Expert Sleepers solution.I would rather spend 400€ one time but after that I can make music without with mess of midi jitter.And since I'll buy in the future some others synths,it will be useful.My passion is making music,not struggling with problems!Since some weeks I don't make music,I'm searching again and again to solve my issue,like when I'm writing this message!Or reading dozens pages of forums or articles,or tweaking my computer.
If I can make music without to be forced to record in audio again and again,in order to select one bar with an acceptable jitter,music is not a pleasure.I can't record any midi automations,because my jitter is worst yet!WTF!!!

YES I agree,midi is very outdated.It's unbelievable nothing has been improved since quite 40 years!!!

 

;

 

im not the best when it comes to writing so ill try and make this post more concise.

but before that ill comment on

for me a big chunk of what im doing no jitter at all is acceptable that's even when midi is working at its maximum capability.
hence for this kind of stuff ill work with audio.
that will mainly be drums and bass.
stuff like pads sfx im not so critical of but these will go to audio if there are any complex modulations happening on them and ill use plugins to to do that to get more accuracy.

see you and the internet call this problem jitter like the inter et calls ducking with a compressor using its key input, sidechaning
to me jitter whould be to do with the microprocessor clock that controls the transmision of the bits down the transmission line.
but all the things you state lead me to the belief that some thing is holding up the next buffer in the usb stack.
hence why i asked about dpc latency.
also as you ucx seems to behave with audio this leads to my other train of thought.


right for the more important stuff.
cause your at the stage where your rightly are to ditch using your synths onboard usb ports.
which is a nightmare to manage if you add more cause most usb hub cause problems when you run out of usb ports on you pc.
(also one manufacture may use a crap of the rack usb board.
cause they will just use what will work on what were mac they have and call it a day.)

lets look at your ucx's midi ports as what ever you move to you will end up using 5 pin din cables.
with this we can remove some variables and narrow it down.

in the sound on sound article i posted they mention:

Start by creating a song running at 120bpm, and make sure Auto Quantise is disabled;

create a MIDI part lasting several bars; and then use the pencil tool to fill it with continuous 16th notes.

Route the output of this track to the MIDI Out to be tested.

Next, create a second MIDI track and leave its output unconnected but route its input to the MIDI In to be tested.

Finally, connect a MIDI cable between this MIDI output and input, then select the second track and record for several bars, so that the hand-drawn notes from the first track are passed through the MIDI output, then back through the MIDI input and recorded onto the second track.


that and also midi test tool
the website is down but you can still get it from
http://web.archive.org/web/20100217...nnection.com/evc/products/miditest/index.html



was what i was referring to.

sorry for being vague

finally do you happen to have a firewire pci card on hand?(if you dont no worries)
if so have you tried the ucx with that.
it will increase the safety buffer on the ucx to 64 samples but this can be compensated for.

also if you run them tests and see some wild variance of 2ms on the rme have you thought of contacting rme, as there drivers and usb/firewire controllers are all developed in house.
they usually behave exceptionally well unless there is a major compatibility issue.

once you sorted with that then if you get issues with the korg then there product is not fit and there will need to sort you out.

hope fully you will run them tests and post the results.
and get you sorted the most financially economical way, as where all poor

good luck

 

Last edited: Sep 5, 2019