sennheiser md 421 used or 400 new
used all my life for vocals. an engineer for seals and croft, crosby etc recommended never looked back...but fits MY voice
had 431 441 re 20 (prefer dynamic)

 

So that's why my SM58, which I've owned since 1993, has had so varied response along the audio interfaces I've had. BTW, cheap Tascam interfaces don't render justice to it. On my Apollo Twin it just sounds beautiful. on blind testing, shouty singers inevitably choose it over my Neumann TLM102.

I'm yet to do further testing now that I've moved my studio to a new place, but one reason why its funky response could be that the metal base that held the screen attached to its base broke and I had to improvise a fix with stove bolts that pierce the whole screen at the base. This *might* be bouncing sound causing the comb filtering that's made me put it away for good. I'll try to cover them with foam and see if it improves. In any case, take care of yours. Mine broke out of ordinary use.

 

Of course but when recording I hear a noise floor...

With AKG 220, just plug in the mic and turn on the input on Apogee Maestro? Sould I activate 48v? and -20 on the mic?

 

Yes, on 48v for all condensers.
Maybe, for -20 dB if the source is too loud

 

sE Electronics. Product page is here:
https://www.seelectronics.com/reflexion-filter-pro/

It's certainly more expensive than lots of the others. Build quality is top notch though. I don't see this thing ever breaking with normal use. This thing is HEAVY! Better have a sturdy mic stand to mount it. I'll stick with this brand when I get my own. Once I use something and it works out for me, I don't tend to stray and test out other brands.

 

I’ve tried these setting weeks ago but I noticed this noise floor...why? Really noticeable noise floor

 

its because you need a PREAMP for a microphone

with this one, you will have a +80 db increase in volume, yet noise floor is where it was before you had a preamp.
this is the purpose of a preamp.
a preamp increase the signal while not increasing the noise floor.
an acceptable average noise floor is between 80db and 100db QUIETER or below the signal itself.
say your signal was -10db on your digital master fader , your noise floor should be -110db to -90db (depending how good your preamp is,how good your mic is how good the cables are whether you have a booth and treatment in room)

if your noise floor was say -40db (very poor) . once you process and compress your vocals your noise floor will end up at -10db below your signal, which is gawd awful! your noise floor in that situation would be same as soft cymbal hits! you would end up gating them and having horrible sound and clarity !

 

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No you dont need an +80 db preamp to raise the signal above the preamp noise floor. That is simply not true. I never needed more than round about like 30 - 35 db of gain for any close source like vocals or guitar. With any of my 12 condeners. (low budget to mid budget).

the only mics you need that much gain are ribbons and some dynamic mics.
And if i talk about dynamics i only have one that really needs more than 60 db. My sm7b definatly likes gain so headroom is prefered.
You should not here any preamp noise from an apogee duett if you amplify a condenser. Or a common dynamic mic. CAuse the preamps of a duet are not bad and really quiet for interface preamps. And they have 75db gain if i remember correct.

 

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im not saying that you NEED it, im saying that the preamp has it, because depending on your mic and source and volume of how quiet your recording, whether a ribbon mic or condenser all these variables matter, there are instances where you need a lot of boost if your miking a quiet signal with ribbon mic.

lets say he using a mic at far distance to catch room AND the source is quiet your going to need +70db easy. ( recording whispering vocal part while playing acoustic bass, or acoustic guitar)in room at distance to catch the bloom of the room as one performance.)

but the whole point is that the pre-amp WILL do +80db AND while keeping the noise floor the same. study the transformer and circuit of a design like the focus rite.
hell, just watch the video i posted it explains all this!
your right if he has good cables good preamp in good conditions you nned to boost les probably around +30db to +45db. but as you get shittier cables, no treatment, no booth on and on it all goes to hell in handbasket.

when your preamp is capable of doing +80db and your only squeezing +36db out of it what does that mean?

ULTIMATE headroom.

now, say in same situation your preamp does +40db MAX and you squeezing +36db out of it .
what does that mean?

not much headroom, too much saturation , degradation of transient response , power supply noise etc..
the choice is up to you.

 

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@MMJ2017 What is wrong with the Apollo mic pre? For $500 and two inputs, I hope they are decent.
@Highdom what is the ratio between noise floor and signal? You will always have a noise floor.

 

which apollo preamp do you mean? ( I am only aware of apollo interfaces ) if that is what you are referring to using an interface with no microphone preamp, i guess it would depend on the mic, the cables the room all the variables along with if your happy with the results you get with that.

what i have found is using interface direct with just the on-board transistor volume control per input , (as substitute for preamp)
the noise floor is higher than i can live with. the transient response of the signal is bad, the quality of the signal is flat and lifeless , very cold and weird odd order harmonics you can never take back out .( a weird smearing effect too)

in my mind $350 dollars for a singlepreamp, but very high end real transformer preamp , solves all those problems and all the aspects of the signal you record barely needs anything else done to it maybe some comp and reverb thats it.
people should use what their happy with ( they should try many options if possible)

like for example my main interface is called roland studio capture it is
https://www.roland.com/global/products/studio-capture/

now if i use a good transformer mic preamp my noise floor is -110db (if my signal reads -10db on master buss) in this situation my onboard volume is turned all way off.

now if i use the onboard transistor volume control per input channel, INSTEAD of transformer based preamp.
and try set everything identical. my noise floor is -79db (if my signal reads -10db on master buss)
besides the increase of noise floor , there is a smearing effect on transients. the sound is flat and lifeless ( flat regarding the transients not frequency response)
a very cold sound and weird odd order harmonics embedded into the signal that i cannot remove.
ive done same comparison and got same exact results with 15 different interfaces ( i have had many cheap and med grade ones plus ,ones for jobs people had for me to use, plus my drummers tascam interface my bassists cheap interface, my singer apollo interface cuz he uses dsp on his vocals etc.)

those situations where i had no choice but to record vocals through mic with onboard "preamp as they label it haha"(interface input volume ), the recording NEVER comes out as good as transformer based real preamp. and most times had to be recorded again because it was so poor compared to the other things in the song whether samples or drums or whatever a guitar amp miced all them had a certain quality but a mic direct into interface didn't hold up to same quality it had to be re-dome agian with real preamp.
but when i mic my guitar amp speaker cabinet the speaker cabinet is putting out a very loud signal in that case i rarely use a mic preamp

 

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It is all about taste. My "newest baby" i bought used form ebay is a Universal Audio 710 which i bought for my mobile recording rig as an upgrade. Now i have to say that i like the sound of this completly transormerless designed preamp more on a lot of stuff (even vocals) than the sound of my main channelstrip a spl frontliner with highly praised lundahl trasnformers.

Yes interface preamps are super clean and none coloured sounding. But thats cause they are desinged to be as clean, noiseless and uncoloured as possible. Not cause they dont have trasnformers.

 

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With a hi quality preamp and any condenser mic, the next culprit down the line could be the cable. Any Universal Audio preamp is top notch quality. The only reason to stir away from one could be the coloríng it imparts and it's ease of use.

 

shure sm58-- I have condenser mics.. and don't use them.. I prefer the sm58 beta or normal.. great sound.

 

Ok guys! Thanks!
I need a preamp. I want to save some money, so let's focusing on something cheap. What model/brand would you recommend?

 

Two mic preamps that I currently have are the Warm Tonebeast ($599) and the Daking Mic Pre One ($649). With the Tonebeast you can drive the gain and impart some nice transformer saturation to taste and as well has tonal variations such as different capacitor and op amp options to add variation to your taste, and the Daking, which is a little more straight forward as it just has the one level knob but which has a euphoric and lovely sound which is close to the sound of the Trident A Range preamp. Things just sound great through it and this preamp is recommended by many if it is the only external preamp to use because it is that good. It is punchy but not aggressive sounding and works it's wonders on vocals, and it is the pre which I use to record my acoustic guitars, swapping out microphones which suit the different sounds of my different guitars. The Duet preamps in your soundcard sound very good, are very clean, but you could always use a saturation plugin such as the free KLANGHELM IVGI to give it that subtle something extra to help the vocal to stand in front of the other elements of your mix. I suggest spending more time searching for right microphone before you get a different preamp because the microphone is the most important aspect of your signal chain, and if you want a consistent killer vocal sound this is the place to focus. Also you need remember, not everyone will sound good on every microphone. For this reason it would be wise to also have an SM 58 in your stable if your main microphone just doesn't cut it for a particular singer as it might save the day. If it will be just you using the microphone it is important to audition a variety of microphones to see what suits you best, if you can. And one last thing, the price of a mic does not dictate that it will work for a particular singer. A $200 mic could work better than a $2000 one for example.

 

Good value piece is the ART MPA Pro II. Stereo Preamp. I've got 2 of them, and both are pretty good. You can get different tones by upgrading the tubes. It also has variable impedance in each channel which is a huge plus for different mic voicings. You can run the tubes either starved plate or hot (selectable per channel). It also does MS stereo encoding. $300 or so.
I use it as a mic preamp. I also sum through one of these. Also gets a lot of use as a guitar preamp (really adds a nice sheen to a live amplifier) either live or recording. I also use it when reamping DI's. So it's a piece that serves a lot of different purposes for me.

 

ART preamps are fairly inexpensive and they do the job for reasonable money, way under $500. It could be a good place to start. A lot of people use them. The downside with the inexpensive preamps is not the sound quality, it's the headroom, how fast they will start to sound nasty as you apply gain to them. I use Universal Audio UA4-710D and love it. 4 high quality preamps with digital connectivity for a little over $2000 is a great buy. I also love the pres on my Allen & Heath Qu-16 and those in my Apollo Twin. I've also recently used my old Line 6 Toneport and I couldn't complain with the results.

 

Here are the specs of your Apogee Duet Mic Pre:

• EIN: 128dB (un-weighted) @ 60dB, 150Ohm input
• Max input level: +20dBu
• Input impedance: 3KOhm

+20dBu of gain is not a lot to count on, granted, but it should drive any inexpensive condenser or dynamic microphone. However, I have to say that I have owned a Duet and I never really liked it. I actually sold it almost immediately after I got it. If you consider buying a very cheap preamp, like a Presonus TubePre v2, which might cost you around $100, you'd get a whooping +65dBu mic input gain. Presonus preamps sound ok and are trustworthy. Now, if you throw in $75 bucks, you could get an ART Tube MP Studio v3, which boasts a gain range of 70dB. I had a previous version a long time ago ,and not all 70dB is usable; the sweet spot is much narrower, but it does give you good gain boost.

Now let me stress that your Duet should do fine. Please, before you spend money redundantly, upgrade your mic cable. If you do that, you might lower the noise floor, tighten the mic response, and even get more output from the mic.

 

hi mercurysoto,did you have the firewire/old duet or the new usb one ?