"Give my vocals some space"

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by Swg Itsyo, Sep 13, 2023.

  1. Swg Itsyo

    Swg Itsyo Member

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    Hello everyone,
    today I had the pleasure of watching a colleague mix a track (it's always useful to see new techniques).

    Like me, and I think everyone by now, he often deals with clients who have pre-recorded beats and vocals to mix. In these cases, I usually use an EQ to carve out the midrange of the beat to make space for the vocals, although I must admit that sometimes it can remove a lot of the "character" of the beat. On the other hand, he uses a punchy wideband compressor on the midrange, leaving the sidechain from 100Hz and up, and compresses everything until the vocals sit well.

    I have to say that it sounded good in that particular case, and I'll definitely try it out myself. What do you think? Honestly, I've never found trackspacer/unmask plugins or sidechain techniques to be effective because they often create pumping (the beats are already mixed, as I mentioned, so you have to create the space yourself, sometimes a lot of it!).

    Why is wideband compression in mono usually overlooked to make room for instruments (in this case, vocals), and EQ is always recommended to unmask the instruments? Maybe I'm missing something! The beauty of this job is that you never stop learning.

    What methods do you use? Share your thoughts!
     
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  3. mercurysoto

    mercurysoto Audiosexual

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    I've never done that either, and it sounds really interesting. I'll try it and see. Aside from the usual EQ carving to make space for the vocals, I usually do one or more of the following:

    1. Add saturation to both the vocals and the beat. The idea is to give both a glueing sound.
    2. Use a limiter/maximizer to balance out the vocals against the beat. I can apply it to the vocals, the beat, or both on the stereo bus.
    3. Add a touch of reverb to both the vocals and the beat for the same reason as in 1.
    4. Use a bus compressor, SSL style to glue the tracks together.
    5. Use and unmasking plugin like Focusrite FAST Reveal or sidechain the vocal track into the beat track.

    Sometimes one method works better than another. Sometimes a combination of methods works. It all depends on the source material.
     
  4. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    I do this quite often (even did it today on a rapper that I recorded a few day ago, over his track). If your Wavefactory TrackSpacer is pumping, you are probably overcooking it (try sending to its sidechain at -40dB at default amount setting, with fast attack and moderate release).Sometimes a little/less ducking goes a long way (before going into more glueing/charactering compression and saturation).

    And Trackspacer works in M/S mode as well, if you didn't already know.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  5. justwannadownload

    justwannadownload Audiosexual

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    I don't have a slightest freaking clue what you're talking about. Literally.
    What do you mean "wideband compressor on the midrange"? Wideband is wideband.
    What do you mean "leaving the sidechain from 100 Hz"? If you're talking about sidechain hi-pass being at 100 hertz, it only affects what the compressor listens to. Wideband is still wideband.
    What you're describing is a bog-standard mix bus compression. It "makes room for vocals" by essentially ducking everything by the vocals' volume with a punchy envelope (i.e. letting transients through). It's "overlooked" in the same way the grass being green is "overlooked".
    What do you mean by "in mono"? Only Mid? That makes sense but it's not mono. Channel link? That also makes sense and it's also not mono.
    WTF
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
  6. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    if it is pumping, the compression settings you are using are usually wrong. But sometimes they would need to be to get your target sound. So then you might switch to a Multiband compressor or limiter. If the amount of ducking you want is causing over-compression too; you can always use a sidechain/envelope tool (like LFO Tool, Kickstarter, Duck, etc) in combination with your compressor. Another little trick you can sometimes get away with, is to add a very few milliseconds sample delay on the Vocal audio, to push the transient back just a nudge. Instead of using a delay plugin, you can avoid adding that latency by adding the delay in your DAW's region/clip track inspector. If you are already playing with the delay, you can always add a few milliseconds/samples to either side for a widening/Haas effect. You can even get more control over your sidechain action by creating a midi track with no softsynth on it, adding Midi notes only, and linking your External Sidechain to the Midi; instead of it reacting to incoming audio.

    Many people swear by LA2A (or other opto) compressors on their vocals for some of these reasons. You get transparent compression, with almost no pumping to worry about; not that much anyway. There is a nice starting preset for LA2A Vocal leveling in the Pulsar Modular P11 Abyss compressor, just in case you are looking for an excuse to add another new plugin. Antares Vocal EQ might be another to check out.

    None of this stuff is one-size-fits-all. Unless it is deliberate, I would also consider moving your Lowcut up from the stated 100hz, to something more like 200-250hz. You could try also using a Tilt eq. You can try all of this stuff more when you only use vocal samples, because there is no vocalist there to bitch about it. "You want to do what?!" :hahaha:
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  7. Pedra Sofia

    Pedra Sofia Ultrasonic

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    I tried that and nah, I still love the Howard benson vocals, this plugin is just perfect for a track standing out in the mix, space, head room, it can easily distort and saturate if your not dealing in a sweet spot carefully but once you get it sitting int he mix its great!
     
  8. shinjiya

    shinjiya Producer

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    If Trackspacer or any other unmasking plugin is pumping, I think the solution is to go back to the basics and understand attack, release and mid/side processing. It's literally sidechain dynamic eq, that is also a form of compression.

    I'm pretty sure you can achieve a good sounding mix that is properly glued by using manual or automatic unmasking plus mix bus compression. I don't mix hip-hop, but approaching the issue of sitting vocals into a beat by compressing it until it fits seems like a nuclear option.
     
  9. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Lol. Obviously TrackSpacer is just one/1 tool out of many (tools and mixing techniques) in order to achieve a great sounding and fitting vocal.
     
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