I was laughing after reading your comments to the OP which is why I brought something to your attention. It was funny watching you dance around the OP's questions. And you're right, that's it. You can't tell him anything. You should be trying to learn the same things the OP wants to learn. So why hinder that? You can't talk about keys and scales obviously. So maybe now you'll be just as hungry to learn instead of coming off like the instructor in the movie Whiplash when you have little to no knowledge. That's why the OP already knows more about it than you.

 

Exactly, you don't know the context between me and the OP and insist on being a fool.

Don't throw your insecurities at me, I've already said I know nothing about music.

 

Bass Riff 1 is in G-Minor…

I used this tool http://www.ibrahimshaath.co.uk/keyfinder/ to analyze the file because I am lazy.

Since it's popuar music boroughs A LOT of composing techniques from Barock (everything follows the bassline!) you just need to (usually) find the bassnote of the downbeat which is usually the tonic of the scale (except for some jazzy stuff where the bassnote often is the 2nd degreed of a scale as part of a II V I progression)

From there on you just reverse engeneer the shit.

Or if you wanna be like really 2015ish you could Ableton Live 9 analyse the melodic and chordal structure of it for you and MIDI-ize it…

 

The Ab suggests G Phrygian though

 

That is exactly the reason why I keep saying that there are no shortcuts in becoming a musician. Forget the crutches and learn your shit.

 

That is not true. You're mistaking "everything follows the bass line" with figured bass, which implies LOTS of inversions in "Barock" music.. and that means that your bassnote won't be (most of the time) neither the tonic of the chord or the root of the scale.

 

Using software like melodyne can help, but it's no replacement for figuring it out yourself. For a simple bass line with a few notes, it could be a lot of things and relying on software can mess you up. But if you know the root note and some of the notes in the song the general atmosphere "minor, major.. etc" of the song it can help you determine the key.

You could also have a list of scales and their notes, circle some of the notes you hear and see what keys work.

One useful tip for people who are having trouble determining a key and the notes in a song by ear is to look at a spectrum analyzer that scrolls like Wave Candy in Fl Studio. In most musical styles you should be able to hear the root note even if you can't identify it.

Another tip is to remember that most people are human... and often their music is a lot more simpler than people imagine it to be. It's important to not be intimidated and give up before trying. I like to keep reminding myself that in western music, there really aren't that many notes. Even Bach and Mozart played with (basically) the same notes as we did.

From my experience, what seems impossible.. eventually will seem easier with practice. There's nothing wrong with knowing the science behind music, but once in a while.. relax and try to hear music and sounds the way we did before we knew what music theory was.

Also, people shouldn't be so rigid with theory. I recently used vocal sample that was meant for one key in song that 'didn't fit' by mistake. My bassline was so simple that the vocals happened to fit in a pleasing way and had a sound different than what it was intended for. I could have fixed it, or tweaked an accidental "out of key" note, but it sounded cool and less "Pop-esque" so I called it serendipity.

In my opinion it's really challenging to imitate other peoples music and expect it to be just as good, but it's great for learning.

 

This technique is the No#1 among at least most pianists but is so deceiving. I mean the music weaknesses remain hidden and cryptic.

 

Look at it this way:

You're the only one saying that "something was meant for one key". Just because things are labeled in a certain way that doesn't mean it's a rule, it only expresses (in this case) which notes are within that segment but, you know, 99% of the people think that the key/chord that is written in the sample means that it has to be used in that same key/chord context (which isn't true).

People that are "rigid" with theory figure this out quickly and can easily tell why things fit togheter without calling it a "mistake".

There are already huge misconceptions about what theory is and what benefits it brings but as you can see, you're the one with the "recipe" mentality that is often atributed to people who know a bit about how music works (theory and all that).

 

Last edited: Nov 3, 2015

You mean "the musicians weaknesses".

Just because a piece of music is crafted and presents you with chord inversions that throw off that "root technique", don't blame the music. Blame the shortcut mentality and the amount of hearing that people do with the eyes .

 

I know about the Inversions. I was thinking about basso continuo (I don't know what it is in english). I am also aware that the bass note might not always be the root of the scale – but this is not Pachelbel, it's a shitty TV Theme. ;)

 

Basso Continuo = Figured Bass

Yeah, that's the reason why I mentioned the difference or else people would start looking into that baroque stuff as a way to figure out 3 chord themes. I can imagine the disapointment..

 

I hear you. I'd rather try to play along to the sample in my DAW to figure it out than researching about Baroque Music. ;) Or I'd do the Ableton 9 Live Trick which takes like 10 seconds. I think it's okay not know anything about scales and modes. Important is, HOW to get it to work. I am still wondering why he even wants to decipher this. For notation? Or learning? I find creating Music more pleasing than reverse engineering it.

 

Reverse engineering is the difference between playing the same stuff over and over/coming up with stuff by accident vs knowing exactly what you want and how to do it (as "in the style off", NOT as "copy of").

If you "reverse engineer" your own stuff instead of convincing yourself that it was divine inspiration and it has no theory behind, you'll learn much more and have more tools for your craft.

By the way, this post isn't aimed at 5teezo, it's aimed at "reverse engineering" and it's benefits. Of course, without some sort of theory to "name" your findings, reverse engineering will be very vague and maybe even pointless.

 

In my opinion there is no other way around it except putting in the work. Years and years of just figuring out other people's music by ear sitting at an instrument hunting around until you have it exactly right. There is no other way to do it.

"Anything worth knowing can't be taught." - meaning you really have to find certain things on your own.

Music theory is most helpful as a "standardized label" for sounds. It is a shortcut to explaining ideas to others. But to actually speak the language of music it is required to "know" the sounds that the label is referring to.

There is no other way except learning the sounds of all the intervals, the sounds of all of the 3,4,5 note chords (and the scales that are derived from them) and the dozen or so commonly used chord progressions. Once you know all that stuff then you will be free to build music in a free, fast and effortless fashion. And collaborate and communicate with other musicians much easier.

It is a lot like going in a restaurant in a foreign country. The food smells good but when you look at the menu you can't read it and you don't know what to order so you just point and guess. When you learn the basic fundamentals of intervals, scales, chords and chord progressions it is like being able to read any menu in the world and order exactly what you want for each meal.

 

@ClaudeBalls

The big question is "how to make people understand that"?

People have lots of misconceptions about what music theory is and most often than not they get "defensive" if someone mentions theory. The other thing that gets in the way is that many think that by not knowing theory they are achieving what in fact is the reason why people study theory and analyze music.

"I don't need theory because I don't read staff, I just play what I hear in my head"...

Reading music is not music theory, that is just notation. If you analyze a book of poems, you have words written in a certain language, not in "poem theory". It's up to you to analyze the poems and find hidden structures in it. That's roughly what theory is about.


...ever wondered why 99% of the "I just play what I feel" crowd ends up playing the same rehashed thing over and over? The "what I feel" thing sounds more like an excuse than a decision in taste. BTW, they usually mean "I play what my fingers already know" and people who play "what they hear in their heads" are in fact the ones who study and practice the art.

 

Yes the Ab does indeed suggest the G phrygian mode which in turn would mean the key signature is Eb maj. G phrygian is a mode of Eb major. This is why it can sound a bit like G minor. Modes are far more flexible than strict scales.

 

How to practice this? This is the simplest piece of music from this guy.
Exact tempo, exact duration, exact placing the fingers, exact ...
https://www.mediafire.com/?cdadxwjaddhz9c1

I doubt whether roll guys could find the notes. Putting them by mouse on the roll (with exact duration) is another problem. I mean by just listening, not by looking at the video.

Of course pitch correction tools could find the notes of this piece (because it's just one instrument) but imagine a situation that it's been mixed with other ones and non musical sounds.

Practicing a fast music is always a big challenge even for pros.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2015

Modes are scales.

G minor - G 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
G Phrygian - G b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

The only distinction is the 2nd, which means that until the 2nd is implied, you would consider it G minor. Since it's a b2, it is phrygian and also sounds minor because phrygian is minor.

 

Practicing music is not the same as practicing your instrument.

Saw the video once and still remember the chords in my head as well as the melodic motif. Could grab an instrument right now and play something very similar, probably not with the exact same voicings, eventually not in the same key... but the same thing. After listening again (with the instrument) I assure you I would be playing the exact same notes/voicings.

Music is built upon many little structures and foundations... the ones you keep trying to skip in hope there's a magic pill (or software) to do it for you.

It's not about the instrument or the piano roll, you keep getting everything mixed up no matter how many times I repeat the same shit. I am gettin bored dude.

You insist on making statements like these when you should be looking for other people's statements and understanding/questioning their validity within context.