Getting the song's info (when even the advanced ear training does not help)

Discussion in 'Our Music' started by foster911, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    Hi there!

    This is a loop I recorded it from TV:


    I have a question. The above loop consists of simple bass, riff and drums. How would you extract the scale, key, chord (of course this one does not have any) and the used notes? When you deal with a fast polyphonic electronic music, ear training skills would be ineffective. Using the pitch correction soft for getting the infos is also really time consuming. The situation gets even worse when an arpeggiator has been used and also the notes duration is another disaster.

    I really appreciate you guys for your generous comments.

    I got the notes of the bass and riff so hardly. I would be so thankful for yielding any applicable method.

    This is my simple loop showing the working notes:


    If you got the notes from the original loop, please post your songs for having discussion.

    Thinking in the reverse order is so helpful for remixing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2015
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  3. kouros

    kouros Platinum Record

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    Oh, that's new.. then I can't help you any further with that since I got it by ear. :rofl:

    Seriously, stop thinking you're so advanced just because you are hoarding a lot of theory. Everyone here has internet too, did you know?

    What you're lacking is musicianship (which is basically what matters, even if you don't know any formal theory), putting theory into practice, which is clearly what you aren't doing... and stop giving crap to other user's music.
     
  4. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    I am not a pro but want to find the relations by every way I'd discover. I really want to know why you think I am not practicing.
     
  5. kouros

    kouros Platinum Record

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    Because it's something that you don't have to say, you just do it and it shows.

    Right now you're only showing that you make up for your lack by pissing on other people's work and making bold statements about music based on wrong assumptions.

    Learn to learn.
     
  6. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    For having useful discussion, would you please tell a little about your experiences about the modes.
    I am a roll guy. I have read a lot about it but when you're sitting behind your DAW, you're just thinking about the notes not their orders.
    Thanks so much!:sad:
     
  7. kouros

    kouros Platinum Record

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    It doesn't matter if the notes are on a staff, a piano roll, a fretboard or just in your head. It's all intervals and it's all music.

    Music is still music inside the DAW, otherwise, what would be the point?


    Stop reading and start listening AND associating theory with what you're hearing.

    Keep doing what you're doing and in 10 years you'll still be thinking "ok, gonna open up my DAW now so let's forget about everything and just draw some bars on the piano roll until something nice comes out".

    At this point you're not practicing music, only diatonic piano roll drawing.
     
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  8. Herr Durr

    Herr Durr Guest

    agree @kouros.. I was never a big fl studio fan.. or of their drawing notes.... It just doesn't seem "musical" to me...

    although in "theory" the theory and that roll can be used to make "music" or so called...
     
  9. timer

    timer Producer

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    To hear what's going on is skill #1 for any musician, and even more for a composer IMHO. Ear training is not "ineffective", but the only way to musicianship. I believe, it will take you just one or to weeks of training to name the notes in music like the loop you provided. Just practice a bit, it's rewarding.
     
  10. Psychoacoustic

    Psychoacoustic Kapellmeister

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    Historically, you would get a copy of the sheet music. In the era of recorded music, many musicians learn by ear by playing back a recording over and over and playing simultaneously, writing the piece down until they get it. In the DAW era, you can place the beat or melodic line in one audio channel and then try to play or program a matching melodic/rhythmic line until you work it out.

    As for the chord/scale, it is guesswork. You guess based on the tones used and the overall context of the harmony - tonal musical pieces usually make the tonal root fairly obvious.

    If you don't know the scales from memory, you can cheat with various calculators, but you will often still have to guess the most likely possibility.

    An example, I was listening to a composition by Jeremiah Pena (after Photosynthesis was uploaded to the sister site), and one of the harmonies intrigued me. I worked out the main notes by playing on my keyboard (and by the way, I can barely play so anyone can do this...), but the notes used could have been any of the scales, but due to the overall context of the harmony, it was most likely that there was a modulation between C minor and B minor.

    It just takes practise.

    http://www.scales-chords.com/scalefinder.php
     
  11. foster911

    foster911 Guest

    (guitarists and orchestralists) vs (synthists and technologists).
    !!!Fight!!!
    That's the problem.
    Let's finish it and ears and methodologies get accustomed to both.:wink:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2015
  12. GuestStar

    GuestStar Ultrasonic

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    If speed is an issue for you, you are able to reduce the speed until is easy to get it. If you have problems to hear the base line. You can change the pitch. You can do pitch and speed modifications with every daw.
    Afterwards is possible to hear note by note.
     
  13. Kwissbeats

    Kwissbeats Audiosexual

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    get behind your piano/synth and find the good notes,
    maybe use your own voice with that (don't need to be a singer)

    or set a tuner on your vocal to see witch notes match,

    If you never used your voice before and think you can't reach a whole octave (which I find impossible but ok :P)
    u can use a pitch correcting plug-in and read the notes from there.

    really not that hard, only takes practice
     
  14. kouros

    kouros Platinum Record

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    People here seem to mix up the context of what is said in a "very often" basis lol

    I said that it doesn't matter which platform you use, if it is a real instrument, a sequencer, piece of paper or your head. It's not the instrument/tool that has to be musical, IT'S YOU!!

    Of course you can use the piano roll or whatever to make music but what I've said was specifically aimed @foster911.

    Guessing is a way to do it but not all people need that. People with a trained ear will identify chord progressions and melodic intervals even before having a reference pitch. Let's not resume everything to our personal method as if it was universal, it does more harm than good.
     
  15. Gnib

    Gnib Producer

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  16. kouros

    kouros Platinum Record

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    What puzzles me is that the title says "when even the advanced ear training does not help" and the example is like level 1 ear training.

    Considering this hard or even impossible with ear training (I don't know where you get these stupid ideas..), admiting defeat at this stage and immediately looking for alternative ways to get things done...

    Yeah man, you're just preparing yourself to let someone else be the musician while you're just the "guy with the theory books".

    It seems to me that you want to make music but everything related to becoming "a music maker" is a huge chore to you.
     
  17. dbmuzik

    dbmuzik Platinum Record

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    You're right. If there is such thing as level 1 ear training, that's got to be all it takes to immediately identify the key of that simple arrangement. I thought you might have been the one to tell the OP what key it is in after 5 comments full of criticism targeted @?
     
  18. kouros

    kouros Platinum Record

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    Lack of context leads to people saying smartass crap like that.

    If you actually read the thread you'll notice he isn't asking for the key, although that's something I've pointed out in some of his other topics to help him understand music a little better.

    Criticism uh? This forum is unbelievable.. :rofl:
     
  19. dbmuzik

    dbmuzik Platinum Record

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    The OP clearly makes reference to the key and scale. You haven't/can't provide any of the "song info" the OP wants to identify, but you're in here kicking science like you know something. You have no sound advice to offer. You were criticizing each comment the other members posted like going down a list.. but at the same time you're a novice who doesn't even know what key the simple arrangement is in. It is what it is.
     
  20. kouros

    kouros Platinum Record

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    In case you haven't noticed, the OP even provided the result of his transcription.

    About the rest of your post, if you don't know the context of things, just shut up. The OP isn't complaining about my ways of helping, why should you?

    Giving people what they THINK they need isn't always helpful, specially when that "need" comes from wrong thinking. If you can't understand my contribution, what was your contribution anyway?
     
  21. kouros

    kouros Platinum Record

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    Yep, you got me.. that's it!
     
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