Generative music - how to?

Discussion in 'Education' started by G String, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Brian Eno likes it.

    Set up a load of rules, some instruments and a few random numbers and computers can make "new" music - music that evolves, that is endless, that has never been "written", that changes every time.

    I've tried NOATIKL but it doesn't take VSTs and I couldn't get it to feed MIDI into a DAW or VST host.

    So you just have their crappy instruments.

    And NOATIKL seems very unfriendly. I don't find it intuitive at all, rather it's a mess.

    I used to enjoy playing with the earlier version, as mentioned by Eno once, the precursor to NOATIKL. I forget it's name.

    What are the best things for generative music? Can NOATIKL drive VSTs? Are there VSTs that will do it?

    What's the deal?
     
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  3. angie

    angie Kapellmeister

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    Try M of cycling74... You must have an active role however :dunno:
     
  4. metaller

    metaller Kapellmeister

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    what's the excitement of this music. i Dont like what i have not created by myself
     
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  5. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

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    Ableton has the tools to do this kind of stuff really well. Especially when you throw M4L devices into the mix.
    Search the Max 4 Live library for terms like 'Generator' or 'Generative'
    Use something like 16 Macros to create Macros for multiple devices on different tracks and map parameters of your choosing.
    Use Live's stock Scale and Chord devices to maintain key.
    Find, study and use Clyphx
    Use Program Change and Clip Launch native to Live 9.
    Finally, check out and use the Sequencers. Not just for tones but parameter sequencers.



    Other useful tools:
    LF8
    PONG Exponential Note Repeater
    Nylon Chord Generator
    VELO Velocity Mapper
    Control Change Modifier
    MIDI Convertor
    Anything by K-Devices

    I got carried away with Live & M4L.
    Here are some VSTs and Reaktor ensembles are always useful
    Obscurium
    Nova3
    Hypercyclic - This is more of an arpeggiator but extremely flexible and one of the few 3rd party arps that you can use inside of Maschine and successfully route out to other Sounds (Pads) with virtual MIDI or the IAC bus.

    ITVL is standalone but can host VSTs and there's a free demo
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
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  6. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Thanks Pinkman, but that's gone right over my head. I struggle to "get" Ableton and I've always ignored Max. Perhaps this is a way into it for me. I appreciate the signposts, thanks.
    I can easily see why the whole concept is junk to some folk. It really appeals to me, maybe because I am lazy and talentless. haha. I do think there's more to it than that though: I am really intrigued by the capacity of machines to generate evolving stuff, given a few rules and some input and randomness. For instance, I like "games" that tick along without you doing anything, like SimCity, say. Where you can set something up and it finds its own equilibrium, or not. Just push a variable this way, and another that way, and see what happens. Given "real world" rules, the model should generate plausible solutions. Or not? It's an interesting fiddle.

    It's not "real music". Or is it? ;)
     
  7. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Brian Eno and the Sim City dude.
     
  8. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

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    It can seem overwhelming but it's not, bro. There's just a lot of possibilities which makes it look like a daunting kind of task.
    If you've ever used Reaktor check out Newscool. It comes stock with Reaktor 5 or 6. Can be hard to find if you didn't know you already had it.
    Library > Ensembles > New Additions > Grooveboxes >Newscool.ens
    Just hit play and start drawing shapes and twisting knobs.
    Once you get how the rules work try Newscool Life. Same concept except you can use it to send MIDI out to other devices or VSTi if you use Reaktor in a DAW.



    Look at like a kid. Just play the hell out of it. It's not going to break.
    Plus, if you're here asking the questions you're asking, I have a feeling you'll pick it up faster than you think.

    Reaktor is a modular environment. Once you get the hang of it you'll realize that you can load your own samples and connect other to other ensembles.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  9. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

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    "I will register this. I promise." :rofl:
     
  10. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Nice. I used reaktor 4, i think. I stopped because dedicated synths were enough to learn, let alone designing them! It's a world of complexity I can do without it, so I just used to load modules, whatever, and I could scarcely see any point. But I'll look into Newscool for sure. And the Ableton stuff too, but that's gonna take a while to get my head around, I think. Ableton is too "intuitive" for me - I don't get how it works. I watch videos on it and I can't understand how they get what they do out of it. I'm going to have to learn......ugh! I just want to move straight to making a masterpiece......and get the computer to even do that for me. :D

    I will register it, I promise. :D
    That looks great but it's Mac only?
     
  11. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

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    Max is the standalone program that allows you to create the Max4Live devices I was listing.
    It's for Windows. You'll need it to be able to use the M4L devices anyways.
    It's free for use with Live but to create and sell your own devices you need to purchase and register. Max 7.3 is on AZ.

    https://cycling74.com/downloads/

    EDIT - I see now that 'M' is a totally different beast.

    Another standalone but with MIDI OUT capability. This isn't really generative but fun to use in the mix.

    Xronomorph
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  12. angie

    angie Kapellmeister

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    Yes "M" is only for mac platform, it is a program developed in the end of 80' along with Jam Factory and Upbeat, both ahead of their time, but sadly discontinued.
    MIDI had the importance it deserves. The loop paradigm was not born yet.
     
  13. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Xronomorph is a terrible name but looks a great app, from the description.

    I have beautiful amazing synths and I want to hear them without having to constantly work them myself. This xronomprh (how the hell do you say that!?) looks great. Though I have to admit, it does look suspiciously like a programming language masquerading as a musical device.

    [Part of my interest in music (and generative music especially) is from seeing the world composed of competing and antagonistic poles - like brevity and understanding, for instance. It's difficult to communicate much with very little. A big antagonism is simplicity versus complexity - I have a deep need for complexity but I want it to be as simple as possible. Yeah, I'm conflicted. Machine-music is guff, but a flute is a machine. A computer can't generate music any more than a flute can. Nor any less. And I'm a fancy machine, after all, right?]

    Why isn't there more software for this stuff? Likewise for computer games. Why do we always have to kill shit? rah rah rah

    VR and generative music.........nice. If only someone will write the bleedin' software! Am I going to have to learn to do it myself? Some hope.
     
  14. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

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    @G String I forgot all about this article. It's useful in getting an understanding of implementing variable conditions using the Velocity devices. His feedback tutorials are seriously cool too. Using envelopes and Live's Scale device you can make some cool randomly evolving drone progressions that stay in key.

    http://angstromnoises.com/
     
  15. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    Thank you, Pinkman. TBH I'm struggling to do anything at all. But bookmarked.
     
  16. Pepper

    Pepper Newbie

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  17. G String

    G String Platinum Record

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    I think it's spam.

    It *is* spam. Get rid of this bot?
     
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