Tell this to to the musicians playing "free groove" rubato - there is a whole world out there that doesn't care about metronomes and even rhythms - you can find such people mainly in the Third world countries playing traditional ritual music or outcasts from the mainstream - free jazz, modern concert music, drone and ambient performers.
And, yes, pulse is outside of rhythm.

 

From which century you are?
Probably you don't even know what the drop means in the dance musics. For being modern you should know that.

But I tell you, this is the build-up and drop. The modern musics' structure is being summarized in this picture (more than 50%). As you see it's so complicated and needs a genius to understand it. This was your first lesson. Wait for the rest.

 

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"verse and chorus" it's not "traditional music terms". And all examples which you post here still have "traditional things" - repetition and variation. It's basis of composing. Thus there is only one question - what and how you repeat and vary. And the way that you use it's that what make you unique.

 

Yes there are polyrhythmic style and yes time signature (pulse), tempo and all together rhythm can change in a piece of music, agreed, to a point where we may have trouble identifying one, since there are severals. Never said anything opposite to that. Rhythm is still there. A lot of us are eclectic in our musical taste and listen to other things then commercial tunes, and there are many genres where the rhythm isn't front and center or not as obvious as the mainstreams ones, that's really not something new or unknown or exotic.
And yes pulse and rhythm are always somehow related. One doesn't exist without the other. They are not exterior to each other.
You mix lack of fix rhythm or pulse and absence of it. At the most rhythm (more precisely pulse) can be either too slow or too fast to be considered as such (but again it's a matter of being able to identify it, which in such scenario isn't possible anymore, but it is still there)

 

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Eh, Talmi, pulse does not equal meter. You may have different type of pulses in the same meter. You may have different type of rhythms with the same pulse in a composition. This is easier to hear in irregular meters. You can remove the rhythm, but the pulse is still there.
Spectral compositions that are just a single chord, drone or any random noise often doesn't even need to work with any kind rhythm or pulse.
"but it is still there" - it's one to think that something is there and another to actually be there.
It's similar to the removing of the root (and the 5th) note in complex chords and working with just the tensions - standard practice in modern jazz/ film score arranging/orchestrating. But if your listener is tone deaf or not from the western culture, he can perceive the sound of your chords as a dissonant noise without hearing the implied root that is missing.

 

how many posts till someone talks about 4'33''

 

@23322332 is classically trained. He looks at the modern musics with primitive views and terminologies. What a shame!

 

Until a while ago the "drop" was actually the break-down: the place where all the instruments drop out therefore the energy is low. Then the drop got the exact opposite sense: the segments with the highest energy in a track.

And, my dear @foster911 it looks like it takes a little ear to see this energy distribution thing: it's not a random rollercoaster. The energy in a track is delivered in a precise progressive manner in all music: low energy first - sometimes lower than 50%, sometimes higher but always under the maximum energy level reserved for the end of the song. Do it reverse and the listener is bored to death aka that's why you don't get to know who the killer is from the first page of the book.

Here's an actually useful picture and you may want to take it easier with giving lessons to others. My 2 cents.

 

My friend, my posted image does not relate to the energy distribution. When you're descending rapidly in the rollercoster, you're experimenting the ultimate feeling of enjoyment like the bungee jumping. The drop term is something similar to that.

 

It doesn't equal in meters it is translated into meters. Any how, tempo, meters, pulses and rhythms are related to each others and are elements that are present in music in a variety of forms, even if just implied and even if some listeners can't perceived them.
BTW I like those theorical discussions, those questions are actually often on my mind.

 

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Dear @23322332 I was just kidding. As you've noticed I'm your follower.

 

This is a good question. My answer is:

It depends on what you want to make. As you know for most producers, their tracks are much the same to their previous ones. They're focusing and spending lots of years just on their way of producing and commercializing their works.

Usually they don't watch other ones' tutorials or even don't listen to the other genres. Most of the dance producers have this situation. What's important to them is their audiences on the dance floors.

Relying on the stupid masses for validating your works is disgusting. They change their minds easily by emerging the new genres and your work will be useless some times later.

Not a general statement but they draw a circle round themselves and close the doors of experimentations in other genres and forms and unfortunately their musics don't become cultivated more across time.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2016

Well, do you think an experimental genre is going to sell or do well in a club?
Answer: no.
So what's the point of doing it if you can't have money or get famous or whatever the goal is? You are looking at things from a little tiny prospective but there are many more, but in general I do agree that people like what they already know and what they're familiar with; but that's normal to be honest. And of course we talking about people who do this for money.

Also you think "experimentation" is like some sort of salvation or something, while in reality most of experimental stuff is probably worthless and nobody of us will even ever hear it all because of how obscure and ugly it is

 

What a good cycle: @Backtired likes @jayxflash and @jayxflash likes @Backtired .

 

If you want to sell shitty music, better market it as something completely new to brainwash and drugged kids. Dubstep was succesful in this.
It's funny that we could invent dubstep in the 80s with the old FM synths, but probably there was no niche for it at the time (or noone knew that they can make screech and wobble noises and actually sell records).

 

I agree with the above.
But
I also can understand that some people make music in their free time and not depend on sales to make a living.

These being said,
I would totally support @foster911 if instead threating us about eventually making his own music or talking about the quality of existing music he would actually present a 10-tracks album, experimental, whatever, with a simple text like "I'm deeply dissatisfied by the existing music, it's simplicity and mediocrity since humanity exists and here it is my take in how I consider proper music should be. if you pesants can't understand it, your brains are inferior." I would respect that person who made that album 1000 times more than today.

At the moment he is throwing shit, he brings suppositions, he often has a superior attitude - pretty much like that "Ancient Aliens" show on History channel, it's all "allegedly".

If you had finished a SINGLE bloody track, you would realise that it's very difficult to come with something 100% different every time. Producers do listen to other genres quite a lot, one of the techniques to make something new is to get an old track element (vocal, hook) and effectively remix around that element, remove that element and you have a totally new track (no original groove, no original melody, nothing, even the original scale can be transposed).

Picasso reinvented himself several times during his life.

If the masses do not listen my music, my friends don't, labels will reject, no radio, no tv, no one. Who is actually going to listen to it? What's the purpose of making it? But if you really like to be special, you're doing it like Martin Gore: a lifetime of commercial success then the latest solo album is totally different. It's no Depeche Mode anymore. It's atmoshpere and electronic sounds, and textures. He understood that people must be cultivated in order to understand complex works and he did that for his entire career.

Because who didn't want The Rolling Stones to actually play rolling stones on the stage and feed that noise into the speakers?

Everything you say, everything, is so easy for us (who actually make music) to dismantle. You have no perspective except a very distorted way of how music should be made - this even thoug your own self is not able to create at least ONE piece of this allegedly "good music". And I bet you're afraid of actually making music because you already know the outcome: you'll be as everyone else. At least by not finishing tracks you're selling to you the idea that somehow you are superior in your taste, that you still have a chance to prove your theories.

 

Music has a very important aspect: iteration. One can only bring a small percentage of "new" (that "new" can be new patterns or new sounds or both or anything else) to a already existing genre to transform it into something else. Classical music is famous for this.

80's were too melodic for such aggressive sounds (acid house was addressed to a handful of people back in the middle of 80s). They were making bells in FM back then. What we call today "EDM" was not able to take it off as a worldwide success in 2005 and so on.

Iteration is valid in fashion industry, literature, movies, TV, you name it. It's not about who invented it first, but rather who promoted it at the right time, to fit the culture of the masses in a almost seamless way.

 

Rubato consist in "nudging" ahead and after the click of the metronome - it's a technique of adding tension. For the tension to be released, all instruments regain perfect timing at certain intervals then they start to drift again.

 

@jayxflash
I unconditionally surrender myself. You're absolutely right.

You know I'm not a specialist. I just opened this thread for posting somethings different. Making a complete track is so hard at least for me, let alone a new idea but this was my last thread before finishing any song. I swear to GOD.

 

I was talking about traditional ritual music that doesn't have strict rhythm, meter or even tempo. I don't know if such tunes exist in the western culture, but they were popular in the village music of my country (at least in the past when there were any people living in the villages).