Hey guys.
Actually I had a very huge success to connect Bitwig and Logic to Ableton via Blackhole and the Midi Ports in OSX.
It's a lot of fun and I can be super creative.
All the results can be recorded in Ableton to a complete project.

I archived a Latency about 4-5 ms. That's already pretty good to record the sound from external Daw into Ableton.

Now I found this:
https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en...he-latency-of-your-Focusrite-interface-on-Mac

They promise a super low latency kext for their soundcards. Actually I have the 1th Gen Scarlet solo. It's not supported.

My System is a new Macbook Pro with a m4pro.
So I think it can handle one or to instrument streams in this low latency mode.

I think I need to upgrade my Soundcard also to get a better sound for my headphone too.

Did anybody made some experience with this low latency kext? I also read that newer soundcards have integrated loopback channels to record internal audio without third party softwares.

I would be so happy to get some tips hints about a new sound card.
But I cannot afford a RME

Thank you

 

Focusrite Scarlett Solo 4th Gen - 129 EUR
https://www.thomann.de/de/focusrite_scarlett_solo_4th_gen.htm

Focusrite Scarlett 4th Gen - SOS Review
www.soundonsound.com/reviews/focusrite-scarlett-4th-gen

Kext Messaging
As far as I’m aware, the Scarlett driver implementation hasn’t changed a great deal since the second generation back in 2016. On macOS, that means they use Apple’s built‑in Core Audio USB driver, but it’s possible to install an additional ‘codeless kernel extension’ that reduces latency slightly for a given audio buffer size. Whereas the process of installing Focusrite Control and updating the Scarletts’ firmware is as smooth as butter, though, getting this kernel extension to work on Apple Silicon Macs is more of a challenge thanks to Apple’s tougher security measures. Once you’ve run the installer, you will need to boot your Mac in Safe Mode and hunt around for the menu that will allow you to enable kernel extensions, which isn’t straightforward to find.

Without the kernel extension in place, the smallest round‑trip latency figure achievable at 44.1kHz, with a 32‑sample buffer, was north of 7ms. Installing the extension dropped that to under 5ms, which is significantly better than any other USB interface I’ve tested recently, and probably bettered only by RME’s custom drivers. Focusrite say that similar performance should be achievable on Windows machines, which certainly bears out my experience back in the day with older Scarlett models — I no longer have a Windows test machine to repeat the measurements.

Optimising macOS for Audio
https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207546515-Optimising-macOS-for-Audio

 

I have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd generation.
If I really thought I needed that extra 1.2 milliseconds of latency gain I'd go to 192kHz (screenshot). for every need so far, the 48kHz has been more than sufficient at 3.9ms(Screenshot).
Apparently, it's even better on a MAC. Their support is pretty good so maybe ask them

 

Last edited: Apr 14, 2025 at 5:20 PM

The only way to get better latency I found was to go thunderbolt for me I had a Focus rite PRo 40 Fire wire it was good I tried a 18i20 not good enough. I went with a quantum 2626 very happy. Now if you PC / Mac does not have Thunderbolt it will be costly. As far as RME I heard they are great but I still am not convicted that the USB Latency will be as low as thunderbolt in real life. Hopefully USB 4 will be a great alternative.

 

That's interesting. Makes me wonder how much faster I could get it down from 2.7 and 3.9 milliseconds if I changed from USB-c.

 

Last edited: Apr 14, 2025 at 6:01 PM

I had a Scarlet 18i20 Gen 666 (I think it was a Gen 2 or 3) that was a nightmare on my Macbook Pro. I went to Motu 828ES because I need that much i/o, actually more but beside the point. I was using a Motu M4 also for about 6 months and it was very nice. I sold it, but only because I moved a bunch of stuff around, went back to using my server Mac Pro 5,1 and no longer really needed it. I'd buy one again without hesitating about it, if not for my hardware synths.

I saw you posted a thread about making hardstyle techno. Are you even recording external instruments? If you are using Logic, and not recording external hardware sources like mic'd instruments; latency is nothing but a number on a screen.

 

One thing that I see very few people doing is actually using an external headphones amp like I do. You get enough juice for any headphones in the world (as long as you buy a decent amp) and it will work on ANY interface, so you'll never have to worry about that aspect of the interface again. And of course, it is better than any interface in the market, even the best ones.

I've been using a Schiit Magni 2 for almost ten years. Might be hard to find one since they have been discontinued for a long time, but China has caught up and there are amps as good or at least half as good for a third of the price on AliExpress.

Ideally you would connect to the RCA in the back, but routing it through the headphones output will not degrade the audio in a perceptible way if you don't have the outputs in the back to spare.

 

Hey friends,
so cool to see that much Feedback.
I´m really thankful.

clone is right --) I make Electronic Music / Hardstyle just "In the Box"
I don´t need external Hardware Input.
Just a good CPU and lowest internal Latency.

You guys can have a look on this article:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010526359-How-to-route-audio-between-applications

Since Rewire is dead (RIP) i still search a solution for a "NO-Latency" Recording inside my OSX.
I´m pretty close to a good latency: In: 3ms, Out 4ms, Global around 7ms.

For the Headphones: I have the Beyerdynamic DT700 Pro X. They dont need so much power. I can also use them directly at the Macbook without Soundcard.

And the post from Somnambulist is very interesting.
I forgot, when you increase the Sample rate, the latency becomes lower.

USB4 is a very interesting point, since the normal USB2 is super dead.
TB also welcome since the MBP has TB5

 

Not for production at their own home studio setup, but otherwise you will often see the headphones amp/s in the same rack as analog patchbays. For non-production related headphones, amps, custom cable makers and so on, https://www.head-fi.org is a very popular forum of similar size as gearspace. Schiit amps are about as agreed upon with you as Shure mics.

 

Schiit came into my perview a few weeks ago and Magni rang a bell in my memory so I looked it up.

Low and behold...https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-unity

 

if I understand what you want to achieve correctly, just get any interface with loopback - (near) zero latency
I use RME, but I’ve set up loopback on Audient interfaces for others pretty easily

 

Crazy,
it´s not about the Topic directly, but i opened the Site and want to buy a device, without knowing about.
They´re damn Sexy ^^

My friend is searching a good "Amp" for his PC to connect good speakers.
For example Klipsch or Nuberts. Also in Combination wit

Can i tell him to start some research about this brand schiit?
I´m not so deep inside this topic.

Thank you

 

Edifier delivers very good sound quality at a fair price:

Bookshelf Speaker and Subwoofer 2.1 Speaker System - 279,99€
www.edifier.com/global/p/tv-home-threater-systems/s350db
www.amazon.de/Edifier-S350DB-Home-Entertainment-System-150W-schwarz/dp/B076HWZHW8?th=1

 

I wish I was in the US to get more of their products. Great support and amazing build quality. My Magni 2 is still perfect and despite its age, can still power any headphones currently available, even hard to drive planars. For those who can get their products at any time, I highly recommend them. Would kill for a readily available Loki in my region.

 

I think you find the rate that does everything you need, especially if you are not suffering from latency issues, 48kHz 24bit tends to do pretty much everything.
The 192 KHz sampling rate will help in capturing frequencies above the 22.5 KHz range, and I believe many sound library makers find it useful, but those are not particularly useful for music online or CD as we generally cannot hear them anyway and they won't be translated by any streaming service.

Yes I remember we had that discussion before. I get it, once we get 'burned' for lack of a better word, with a product that doesn't do what we thought it would, we tend not to go anywhere near it again. I was either lucky or they fixed it in generation 3 with the USB-c, which we also chatted about.

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2025 at 12:41 AM

RME is probably going to be the lowest latency you can get. At 64 samples on my Digiface, Im down to 2ms one way. I have no use for it or I'd likely just run it at 32 samples for a 2ms round trip.

 

Importing might or might not be an issue for your friend. That said, you've seen shinjiya's post, and beside the reviews that I've read from varied sources, his direct experience to me says much about the quality of the Schiit brand.

 

Hey friends.
I continued my research and Read a lot about the RME Babyface Pro FS.
But also about the Motu M2.

I think the RME is too expensive and also a bit "old" with USB2

The Motu M2 and Focusrite 4th Gen are affordable for me.
Now i need to find out if they´re able to capture Audio between DAWs with their internal Loopback Functions and how the latency is.

Definitly think on of them can be the next Soundcard.
i mean, it´s already "OK" with my Scarlet 1th Gen ^^
Got 4-5 ms with Blackhole and just need to Cut the Start of the recorded audio in Ableton.

 

one of my biggest regrets is not getting a Babyface Pro FS sooner...
I've also looked at Motu, Apollo x4 (and sell my rack) and Audient, but I'm glad spent extra and got RME because the drivers are ROCK SOLID, everything you read about RME is true.
I'm having a lot of fun recording with native plugins real time at 32ms.... something not possible before.

what blows my mind is that it is self powered via usb, it's really an incredible piece of engineering. But yes, it cost a lot but at least it has adat in and out.

 

Try not be fooled by their use of USB2. It's implemented to perfection and is utilized in pro studios around the world. My original 2012 or so Babyface that I bought used for 300 bucks is still working like day one and the drivers have been recently updated as of January 25th. I would and could be using it 11 years after buying it if I didn't need more inputs so I picked up a UCX II which is too of course running over USB2 and takes flawlessly anything that I throw at it. It NEVER crashes and runs at very low latency. Which other sound card could say that?

Respectfully