Listening to the OP mix, I immediately had to turn the volume down.
The accusation of an overuse of an Exciter was made by another poster, and that was my exact same thought before I came across his comment.
Boomy in places and harsh in others. You asked for feedback on the mix. That's mine.
If you had asked for feedback on the composition... safe, predictable, paint by numbers, dull.
Sorry.

 

@MrLyannMusic
I agree 100%. I hope I didn't come off that way.

Here is the mix I posted:
https://we.tl/t-z63YIPDYX7

 

You have to replace this badly recorded original stems in context: this was for a tough competition launched by Lewitt. The goal here is to get rid of all the (voluntary) defaults and glitches of the stems and do something listenable, and, why not, enjoyable?

Personally, I found this difficult challenge interesting, but I understand your point.

 

i was not aware that i was supposed to give thoughts about an audio track that should conform to your standards. but since english doesn't seem to be your first language, just give me the benefit of the doubt that my comments about the track were not understood by you.

 

Alright I did a second mix taking into consideration the feedback I received. Please let me know your thoughts:

https://we.tl/t-iUQBEmCSFQ

 

Thank you to share your work with us, @thebeatsareill!

I have to say that I love what you have done with the guitar! And the piano now resembles exactly... to a piano!

Thought one problem remains: the overall sound have a neat tendency to saturate (starting 1:6 the sound becomes far too aggressive), perhaps you should tame your levels a little more? In this file you are at the limit of saturation, you should always export your mix with -1db true peak level and -23 to -14 LuFs internal loudness reference.

If you don't have the necessary tools (or if your DAW doesn't have clear indicators about the loudness (=LuFs)) always try to maintain your average volume below -6 and your peaks can't cross the -1 line (personally, I use a brickwall limiter set to -1, threshold set to around -6 or less, and no problem whatsoever), it's the generally accepted loudness when you publish online, but @MrLyannMusic is far more savvy on this subject than me.

There is a lack of space between the instruments, perhaps you should work deeper with reverbs and pans, so that there is clearer separation between the instruments and the voice, and the soundscape is larger.

What is strange with the voice, is that with your precedent mix I found your treatment of the vocal stem near perfect... And here it sounds like you haven't applied the same...

I think perhaps the reason why the voice seems less clear now is simply that the levels are too high, so there is a digital distortion which scrambles everything.

The bass is far too compressed and too thick now, perhaps you should think about letting this stem simply as it is (to respect the nuances of the musician; please note the fact that all notes played aren't the same: sometimes the musician accentuates some notes, and play softer on others, sometimes he/she follows closely the drummer, etc...) You can of course EQ exactly to your taste, but the delicate dynamics should not be squashed IMAHO.

On my side I tried a lot of things with the bass, and finally I found my sound: I used Ampeg SVT amp sim' plugin, and that's all!
@MrLyannMusic told me earlier that this amp sim' doubles the actual amp already used by the bassist, but I can't help myself: I love this sound!

If you're not happy with the original bass sound, I suggest you to use filters (analog synth / moog filters, various VCFs, etc...) and / or everything with a "valve" in its name, so that you are completely in the "retro" mood! But anything what you do, it should sound "sober", straight and simple, like an acoustic (upright) bass.

Think about Jazz or Blues for example, for inspiration you could try to listen to old 60's or 70's blues recordings on Youtube, if ever you have time...

So to sum up my point:

- Less, less loud!

- Keep the voice as clear as possible (it doesn't mean 'louder')
Note: to really tame the enormous difference of level between "soft" parts and "screaming" parts of the vocal stem, it was suggested earlier to create a volume automation on this track, perhaps with a VCA?

- More space, and a little more reverbs, especially on the voice
- Bass: more natural, more 60's, more valve!

Last minute: the volume of your (excellent! ) guitar tracks should be really lower, and the piano a little louder, more present... @MrLyannMusic told me to use a stereo widener (spacializer) on it, I found it's an excellent idea because you can raise its level without embarrassing the voice, which is always mono.

 

Last edited: Aug 6, 2021

Your input and i respect that, friend ...

No worries friend! all good

I appreciate you taking the time and joining! i'll take a listen to both of your tries and i'll give you a feedback soon!

I'm not asking you for feedback that conform to my standard, but i think your feedback should take into account the genre's specification, one can't judge a metal track by classical music standard or vise versa, if you don't feel that you have enough skill to diffrenciate between genres and what they require, you could choose one of two options, leave a simple feedback, which mention that that's not your type, but you'd love to share your thoughts on song, or apprach, aknowledging your limitation, or you can just leave a simple react on the post, but if you didn't even listen to the whole song, yet you appointed how everything done does not conform to your own standard...

in any situation apologies that i came strong at you, that shouldn't be the case, we're here to learn, why not learn how to act appropriately i'd still wanna invite you to downloading the stems and taking a shot at this friend

 

After importing the first version and the second one for comparison, the difference is there and impressive.

On the first track:

- Everything sounds saturated, (it is not a good idea to apply saturation on a master level, but on a bus level, as different instruments, require different type or how mush) it is apparent especially on pianos, when high notes are being played and on guitars...
- Vocals are buried behind guitar which should be the other way around...
- Drums are also being buried, but not as mush.
- There's some weird gating going on, on the piano.

On Second Track:

- Somehow everything is more balanced and more open...
- Vocals are now the centre of the song, contrary to your first version, which is a pleasure to hear, at least to me, as i always prefer vocals to be easely heard, and distinguishable, because to me Vocals are the ultimate instrument because everyone can relate to it, there fore it is recommand to give it a bit more special treatement, on the other hand there is some weird automation going on at2:45 that probably needs fixing.
- Saturation is now more suble, hearable, but not distracting

on a personal note, i'd love to hear more atmosphere on this, a more rich reverb/delay, to fill in the empty parts, but that's how i'd roll!

nicely done, one last recommandation on may part, add a bus compressor, highpass the low end on the sidechain trigger so the compressor would ignore the low ends, therefore resulting in a more transparent compression, now play with your ratio/threshold and mix knob and try to get a bit of puping and that would give your mix some movement therefore it's more alive!

good luck friend.

 

I gave myself an hour using only Acustica Black and SSL Native 2. I haven't even listened to it really. I'm sort of mentally displaced today. New meds. Sorry, it's a bit of a blur.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2021

It's abrasive. The vocal assaults the listener and many other instruments seem to be aiming for dominance. It's a remake of a song from another era and it needs to be treated as such. Do not try a 2021 mix for best results when a 1960's sound will work best. That is what I attempted. whether i succeeded is up for debate.

 

Hey, thanks a lot @Lenny Belardo II to share your work on this real challenge of a song, despite your IRL issues... (I'd dare to say that I know - a little, considering my history - what you're talking about. please receive all my support and ultra-positive vibes!).

On the positive side, this is the more balanced mix I heard on this topic! My sincere "Bravo!" on this!

Personnaly I found that reaching the perfect equilibrium appears like a "Mission:Impossible", except than in the film, as in the series the guy(s) manage to succeed anyway - like you here!

...But I see a problem in the tonal balance: listening your mix, we can hear extreme lows, extreme highs... and no so much in-between.
This is what I call: "the loudness curve", named from a famous button that was present in all the 70's "Hi-Fi" amplifiers anywhere in the world.

I think mediums should deserve more love, without - in another side - completely mess your very interesting mix, you could consider straighten your general tonal curve a little, to give justice to the instruments, it doesn't have to be an "Attila" type of change, just a "I restore justice, wisdom and balance in this world" kind of move .

What I like: your work on reverbs (congratulations for the snare!), near-perfect, transparent, your reverbs are never an obstacle between the instruments and us, but more a "faire-valoir", an enhancement, and that's pretty good!

 

Last edited: Aug 6, 2021

Thanks! I barely used my ears at all doing this. I've been mixing tracks for forty years and just a few things stood out. The vocal was harsh, I smoothed it out. The drums were dreadful. Where necessary, I added Slate Drum Trigger for more realism. The Acustica Gain Staging seemed to eliminate the need for compression although I put the SSL Bus Comp on the output along with PA Black Box for valve saturation. Used two reverbs, one medium plate for Vox from Softube and a short drum room for ambience on a few instruments from UAD EMT 250.
If it's lacking mids that's a problem. But I'm working in a very poor environment, so forgive me.

 

I love all the feed back. I'm going to find time later tonight to take all the criticism into consideration with a third mix. Not to sound too cheesy, but this is the exact environment I have been looking for. Those with much more experience than me picking apart my mix and advising how I can develop a better mix. I appreciate all of your time to listen and analyze very much. Thank you all! @Amore_de_la_Vida @Lenny Belardo II @MrLyannMusic

 

There is absolutely nothing to be "forgiven"... for the simple reason that I work also in a very poor, inadapted environment, and my only monitoring mean is an HD800, which is really excellent in a general way, for neutral listening or controlling reverbs... but totally inadapted for mixing.

On this very subject, I'm sure you'll agree with @MrLyannMusic statement: nothing worth a good, excellent pair (or more) of actual monitors.

But alas it's not possible regarding my actual conditions and the kind of place I live... but I don't reject the idea of winning one day a mix contest, so that I'll be able to show off a max on the forum! "Look at my beautiful (montruous) monitors! Look at my luxurious, gorgeous studio!" (Unfortunately, I'm not like that, which is a shame, and a serious handicap if you wanna be a 'winner' in the 'show business'. )

Anyway, I'm sure you will find a way to have a good balance of frequencies, suitable for any listening condition!

And it's easy in your case, because your mix is already solid and seriously good sounding (of course, your long mixing experience can be heard just by listening, without ever knowing you).

Just a tip if you want, because I try to learn: How did you do the "smoothing" of the voice? Because the only thing I tried is to use Ozone 9 and RX8 to tame this aggressive recording (you can find the resulting stem above), but I'm not sure I succeeded. In fact I'm not 100% satisfied yet.

Thank you for the idea of the drum trigger, I'll study that asap.

 

Last edited: Aug 6, 2021

I couldn't help but give it one more shot before I start work for the day. I read all the comments from above and did my best to execute based on these. Please let me know your thoughts. Feed back on a mix 3 is quiter than 3.1, which I "normalized" to see which of these is more appropriate, that is the only difference.
https://we.tl/t-OTZQnGfRCg

 

Thank you again, I was curious to hear how you manage your levels, and the 3.1 is... absolutely fine!
There is not a single grain of saturation, the peaks always stays at -1, the voice is clear again (because there is no more inter-modulation between the instruments), I think you have reach a good, sane polished state with your mix.

If ever now you wanna give it a little more punch, you can possibly use a maximizer, but with discretion and caution, not too much, just to align your loudness to other songs of the same genre, without ever crossing the limits of -1db peak and -14 LuFs.

As I said earlier, I'm really a noob in mixing, the only thing I (perhaps?) can bring here is my long habit to play live with human musicians, so I pretend to know how a guitar, a piano, an acoustic drum kit or a bass should sound, if ever though you wanna respect the original particularities and the special play of the musician, which is very personal and resembles to noone else.

In this band in particular, each musician have its special "trick", the "thing" that make him/her special and unique. For example, take an electric guitar, and now ask 10 musicians to play with it, all with exactly the same settings, the same amp, the same conditions and room acoustic, you forbid them to touch anything.

Believe me or not, you will hear 10 very, very different sounds! Because with these kind of instrument, everything is in the fingers of the musician, who expresses this way her/his unique personality, talent and background.

And I would go here far beyond a simple question of taste, I think for example that in your mix the bass is not what it should be, because the natural dynamic and, almost all, the sustain of the instrument is not respected. The compressor or side chain you have used on it literally destroyed the nuances and the sustain of the bass...

Of course it's just a suggestion, but perhaps could you try other combinations of EQ and dynamic processors? Or simply try different settings without changing anything on your plugins?

You talk me earlier you used the side chain to give punch on the bass, perhaps have you used this famous DJ trick that lesser the music level each time a bass note is played? It simply doesn't work here, this special kind of music is not made for this. In fact, as I learned on my side, sometimes you have to forgot all the tricks you have learned when you meet an UFO (jazz / blues) song like this one. Different planet, different language, different culture.

It reminds me that I heard the other mixes that this vendor have proposed for the same contest at different times: each time, it is unexpected, badly recorded, full of many kinds of traps and difficulties, to raise the "tough competition" aspect of the contest.

And here if you allow me I would give an advice on the piano stem, which also still doesn't sound as it should. I don't hear the "wood" of this piano, and even if it's a sampled one, I think it deserves more care, to really render it as it should.

To give you a good idea how an acoustic piano should sound: please listen to this. For this particular song, concerning only the piano, the producer had many choices: he/she could very well have added more reverb (more soundscape), or zero (more intimate), he/she could have added more attack (not by using any comp, simply by raising the trebles / high mediums).

Instead of that she/he have chosen to let the piano sit naturally in the medium (in the goal to not infringe on the female voice, which is in the higher frequencies), but raised a little the bass notes, to give more drama, more "seriousness" to the song, and finally to add a very discrete reverb. This was a smart, but risky choice. Personally, my reflex would be to add more reverbs. Tons of reverbs!

So you have the choice, but just think about that: pianos are made of wood, so you have to be able to feel the woody aspects of the sound, but in another side the danger here is to make it sounds too "metallic" which unfortunately is often the cases with sampled ones.

And the last problem I see is that this piano should be more present, more "alive", for the moment it's not exactly the case in your mix.... yet.

I've taken a long time to write this because I wanted to advocate for the instruments I know and love. This message is not only for you but also for other aspiring producers I met who treat all the live instruments the same way as they could treat any kind of sound, with the same prejudices, the same systematic approach. In fact, each instrument is a universe, a galaxy by itself, you have to think differently for each one, and each one deserves a special attention and care.

 

Last edited: Aug 6, 2021

@Amore_de_la_Vida
You are 100% right about the bass being side chained. I took the kick track and let it duck the bass every time a kick hit.
I must say that I feel like I "owe you one" for all the time you've taken to analyze and clearly express the changes you are suggesting. I feel like we would vibe well in the same studio.
Another habit of mine is to put a sharp curve on melodic instruments to nearly cut out the lows, this is most likely why the "woodiness" (is that a word? lol) is lost from the piano.
I will make another mix later today based on this newest feedback.
Thanks a million!

 

well I think the OP asked our opinion about the mix, not our opinion about other people's opinion, which seems off topic and could start a flame war.

he could agree or disagree with the opinions on his own. i was more than clear the first time.

 

The vocal chain was SSL Native 2 for eq, PA Neold Big Al for saturation, then Acustica Audio El Rey compressor and finally Soothe 2 which flattened the digital harshness.

 

Wow, thank you very much for this! Usually, beginning producers never reveal their... hem... "secrets" (lol), in the fear of... what? Dunno, and to be frank I never understood, because it's not because you smooth a voice stem like @Lenny Belardo II... that you will sound like @Lenny Belardo II !!!

There is always a world between using "tricks", and really "sound" (if possible, not like everyone else). For me this is another clear indication that you're far from being a beginner, and that you have nothing to prove, except, perhaps? sometimes, to clients or artists that never heard of you before in their entire life.