Fake files all around

Discussion in 'Software Reviews and Tutorials' started by pratyahara, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Oh yes! Dithering generally; good or bad. And each algo sounds totally different to me. It must do to you too.
    Yet although I can hear it, I'm not totally attuned to it because it's not really part of what I do most of the time, and I only attune to it if I master something of mine. Generally, I do my very best to leave mastering to someone else!
    I had to read that twice. It never even occurred to me about any dithering after the radio limiter.
    There was a British comedian that plays as part of his act, and he once did this skit regarding The Edge and his delay fx on his guitar.
    He plays a U2 guitar arepeggio with delays, all stadium-like, and then acts like the power goes, (turns off fx) and makes out he's just playing some naff, banjo-like, nursery rhyme riff behind it all!
    Point being, if there's so much compression and limiting used in broadcast (there is) then why don't we just save money on mastering and just give a good level and let the system do the rest!? haha.
    Because, I guess, the true source would be just like the U2 guitar gag!
    But for certain genres, I'm wondering if this would even be an issue. Especially if there is no other medium for distibution.
     
  2. pratyahara

    pratyahara Producer

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    Now that we've solved the 'scientific' problem, let's go back to the beginning. Why people do forge mp3s?
    - out of prejudice (they believe greater number of bits per second upgrades the sound even by reverse engineering (simple re-encoding). But in fact it just wastes memory (increases the file size), adds no usable data, and renders a quality loss (due to additional compression and filtering). I know people who batch re-encoded their whole collection. And such files are then spontaneously spread throughout internet.
    - out of greed, in order to make business in selling audio files one has to have a big offer, and proffer all of the items that are in demand, and in best standard. It is not easy or cheap to collect genuine files in wanted quantity, so they just forge them out of anything they bump into,
    - out of naivety people always opt for highest bit-rate and ignore all other files at hand that are not nominally @320. No matter that original file @160 would sound better than the same file re-encoded to 320 from it. They just do not check. So fakes also spread that way.
     
  3. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    What "problem"? :dunno:
    You forgot
    - out of stupidity.
    - out of not giving a fuck about the medium of music. It's just another thing to sell.
    Same as fake food. Same as cheap plastic clothes. Same as cheap hardware.
    All the 'out of' reasons you said above, and more.
     
  4. Roject

    Roject Rock Star

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  5. pratyahara

    pratyahara Producer

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    And there is a simple trick as a way out. Forgers always push it to the end. So everybody re-encodes to 320 kbps, and practically nobody to 256.
    So if you pick a @256 you are almost certain that it is not re-encoded.
     
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  6. Fourier

    Fourier Member

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    There's not a single thing that could be called "proof" here aside from your claims that "you can hear it".

    Hey, I can also eyeball the distance between different stars. It's really simple, I can see it every time with my own eyes. And that's all the proof that is needed to substantiate these claims.

    Trust me, any reasonable person looking at this will mostly see what is obvious; couple clowns making ridiculous claims and asking people to believe their word on being able to hear these things. Nothing we haven't seen a million times before.
     
  7. pratyahara

    pratyahara Producer

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    Have you ever heard of 'Cogito ergo sum'?
     
  8. Fourier

    Fourier Member

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    Ever heard that metaphysics is not a subfield of physics, and is not really related to practical research in any way, nor useful in proving anything in practical terms? If you haven't, then now you know. Descartes has been in many ways an influential figure. His metaphysics, on the other hand, were not.

    Want to know however who was actually very influential scientist born during classical period, and who actually laid foundation for much of the modern music technology? I can give you a hint, his surname is Fourier. You should read up on him; while not really a philosopher, he had much more practical things to say than Descartes in the realm of philosophy.
     
  9. Fourier

    Fourier Member

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    Also, another small tip. What you're doing has nothing to do actually with the metaphysics of Descartes, as in, that particular phrase. What you're doing is called solipsism; the idea that things only matter as far as you experience them (or think you experience them). I'm fairly certain that Descartes would have taken it rather offensively - to have some chump quoting him in hopes to dodge the burden of proof on positive claims (i.e. "I can hear the difference).

    I don't know who you think you're talking to, but you're practically a toddler from my perspective
     
  10. DoubleTake

    DoubleTake Audiosexual

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    InterWHAT?
    You people have lost your minds.
     
  11. pratyahara

    pratyahara Producer

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    1. It's not metaphysics, just a statement that perception of something is the proof that it exists.
    2. metaphysics is not a 'subfield of physics' (in philosophy such opinion is called 'psysicalism' /the thesis that everything is physical/ and rejected as a 'naturalistic fallacy'.
    3. No measurement (exact practical research) has any meaning without belief in truth of perception (i.e. 'Cogito ergo sum').
    4. Fourier believed that he existed too, based on the above.
     
  12. pratyahara

    pratyahara Producer

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    Well, I can hear (perceive) acoustic differences of some kind, and you can't, so you try to corroborate that inability as a necessity with tests purportedly based on scientific methodology (it's not equal to science).
    You are wrong. I know who I think I'm talking to: to a reincarnation of Fourier himself.
    And, concerning your language, there's a law on slander, you know.
     
  13. droplet

    droplet Producer

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    Location:
    caput mundi
    fake news
    scamdemic
    twin towers

    now fake mp3 bitrate?!!!

    where's my shotgun? I need some samples!!!!
     
  14. recycle

    recycle Audiosexual

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    The sound of mp3 128k is perfect, flac is a conspiracy from the HDD lobbies!

    By increasing the file size they want to force us to buy new and expensive SSD media. They want to manipulate us!

    WAkE UP PEOPLE!!!1!!1!
     
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  15. Fourier

    Fourier Member

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    Sorry, it is metaphysics, and it is the very foundation of his metaphysics.

    This has gotten so boring that, at this point, there's no point anymore. Any reasonable and rational person can observe that you have not been able to provide any proof of your capabilities beyond your own word - which any reasonable person understands isn't really proof, just you asking others to trust you. And you have no credentials to speak of, which would invite anyone to trust you. And of course, mentioning a phrase that has absolutely nothing to do with the quasi-discussion at hand.

    You can go and continue with your life being a dummy and you know, as far as my philosophy goes, each to their own. It's mostly harmless and at worst you're still mostly the only victim, given that you're clearly incapable of making a compelling case. If anyone falls for that, it's on them at this point.
     
  16. itisntreal

    itisntreal Producer

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    I dont get it!!!
    This kind of english is to hard for me to understand
    What is fake the matrix you take the red pill or the blue pill i'll take them both cause people can enhance your thoughts and believes and everything you ever loved those people are so fucking nasty they do everything to kick you into the abyss i call them the mindcontrol mafia
    And the pharmaseutische mafia are even worse those bitches let you suffer en in the end they blame it all on you and call you schizo or psychotic to cover it up fuck that shit and i dont care what those fuckers say i didn't care about those bitches anyway peace out and make musick!!!
     
  17. pratyahara

    pratyahara Producer

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    Well, I just delete fakes and search again for genuine ones.
    Sorry for may bad German.
     
  18. Illadelph

    Illadelph Producer

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    Your not gonna hear dithering algorithms that's the whole point of them. cool story though
    As much as i hate U2, i think all electric guitarists would be essentially handcuffed when handed an acoustic guitar and electricity taken out of the equation.
    But yea, Edge seems be as creative and riveting as a potato with a beanie hat on, fuk him. and ive met bono he is an insufferable stuck up wanker tbh
     
  19. pratyahara

    pratyahara Producer

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    You can hear dithering, and each algorithm sounds different. There is no way back to the original.
    The whole point is not that the difference can't be heard, but to preserve some of higher bit depth details in lower bit depth.
    It can not be done perfectly for theoretical reasons.
    In given circumstances, dithering is just better than non-dithering.
     
  20. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    And, hopefully I guess, this might be a rip from an iTunes download, even if it doesn't show as VBR.
     
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