Yeah, Delta Blues is very microtonal. Here's slide guitar maestro Derek Trucks explaining how it's similar to Indian music :

 

we are talking about something completely different i think. my knowledge about traditional theory is rudimentary and my approach is relatively naive.

yeah, they are like "look mom, i can play the piano with 3 hands instead of two!" - while someone else plays a piano with 19 keys per octave using a bow while underwater.

otoh, these jazz and classic people still know a lot more different things than preschool kids or techno artists.

just saying "but there is far more options, why not use a dice?" does not automatically mean you have more real options at your hand than someone who is "educated" with all that jazz, baltic or arabic stuff. it is just a bit a different way.

 

Last edited: Jun 12, 2021

nice example to show that using another scale doesnt help much when your composition method is "improvising".

because then you end up beeing very close to how you would do it with 12 tones. :P

 

I don't understand what you're sayin.. who's improvising in that track?


Btw from all the examples provided by 23322332..
I find the Gamelan-type track to be Very interesting,
I always loved the traditional style of gamelan, so that's an interesting piece.

But the one that sounded the best to me was the 31-tone "Madonna, il poco dolce" Canon,
Wonderful, Magnificent stuff right there!

And I wonder how this guys can distinguish and keep track of it having so much microtones..

 

Last edited: Jun 12, 2021

One of the reasons why only fragments of this guy's works remain is that his music was considered hard to sing and he got forgotten very fast (like most of the composers from the past, of course, even old Bach was forgotten, Vivaldi, too, it's musical critics that revived them). The only famous chromatic/enharmonic composer to this day from the era is Gesualdo, but... this is only because he was a rich aristocrat and murderer. And I think modern recordings of him are mostly in 12 equal, not using his system - based on his "cimbalo cromatico" - 19 keys per octave unequal tuning (so it had at most 18 good perfect fifths).
Anyway, to the original post - how do you expand major scale from 7 to 12 keys? The answer is... chromatic jazz or classical music, based on meantone tuning, but many of the contemporary jazz techniques are not based on the major scale (and major scale is equivalent to meantone temperament). After 12 equal the next logical step is 19, then 31 equal, basically return to roots of Western music. Still, this is only about major scale. If someone is after more exotic scales, there are other extensions in other equal tunings.

https://sjoerdvisscher.glitch.me/keyboard/?19&7L5s = you can try 19 equal and other scales/tuning here

 

Last edited: Jun 13, 2021

@23322332 Thanks!

 

Fifths which cannot be stacked-up, which don't add up to 9ths, which don't invert to 7ths, which don't add up to 11ths, which is the inversion from the ones you've started 1 octave higher, and so forth and so on... not to mention boasting 9 wolf-tritones, as so as the utter limited chordal possibilities, unless you use it as a 12 TET with "character-tones" or "specific-purpose-patch-tones", as the example above - otherwise the composer would be limited to write for an orchestra of human voices, theremins and howling wolves.

Sorry, but going back 200 years or so prior the 12 TET, which now has over 200 of good use (mostly), is not the type of approach I would consider as answering the proposition presented here, which acomplishes that by respecting the diatonicism, stackable fifths and all the derived intervals possible from such organizational method, specially for any modern western instrument and people inclined to express themselves through them.

Nonetheless, I appreciate sharing your thoughts and concepts to back it up, as well as the historical context.

 

I hope we'll be able to reach the point where examples derived from these 6 scales, a 5th or 4th apart, played over a chosen tonality, start being presented by those attending the thread so, when we see past the recurent arguments involving inspiration-from-beyond, jazz references, prefered masterful musicians, microtonality, etc. Hold tight.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2021

That's it. We can bend, we can slide, we can pinch, we can flutter, we can dive-bomb or mod-wheel it, etc, therefore generating 1/2, 1/4/, 1/8 tones although having simple equally tempered instruments.

 

I hope we'll be able to reach the point where examples derived from these 6 scales, a 5th or 4th apart, played over a chosen tonality, start being presented by the originator of this thread.

 

I think this is the kind of innovative tuning @Freetobestolen has in mind.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2021

????
What are you even talking about, wow. You reveal complete lack of understanding in what is lost. 9 wolf tritones? There are no tritones in such system, it's called augmented fourths and diminished fifths.The actual logic of everything in such music is exactly the same as the one in any theory book, because that's what the whole theory and notation is based upon. And it is real diatonicism, unlike music based on playing symmetrical chords and tritones - such styles have nothing to with Western music diatonic music, these types of gestures are related to "synthetic modes", found in 12 equal and other high error systems.

 

If the T.A is also MMJ and a couple of other aliases who keep saying the identical phrases under different names, he does it naturally if you have seen the deaf metal clip he is in with clown makeup. Maybe I should post it? He actually thought nobody downloaded it. It was kept as a backup when he started bad-mouthing people who could write and play when he could not. You need to be deaf to listen to it. It's amazing how many people do not know you cannot have multiple accounts and it is bannable. Ask a moderator.
This is a very funny example of out of tune. Microtones, definitely, but not on purpose.
In India, they have mastered microtonality and it is at the core of their music, their Ragas are very convoluted as any westerner who has ventured into studying them knows. John McLaughlin has done a lot of time with his music incorporating microtones. Surprising nobody picked such an obvious example with a truly great musician. Probably because several of the people here can theorize but the only way they can play it is by getting a computer to do it for them. McLauglin is generally favored by people who can play.

 

Sure, please do that. I remember this also ! Dude talking about "jazz music theory" for months and then posting this crap ! Not aware, not conscious. Funny, but sad also. Typical Mythomaniac.

 

So many things to play, practice, study and learn in the music universe.
So many teachers, and also so much online, free or with a cost that is ridiculous. Masters on Patreon for a few box a month...
Real questions, real answers, real topics that are related to real life music.
Questions like the one on this thread is just related to the an obscure mind. my next gig is on friday, i will print this question :
"how to insert the 5 "unnatural" degrees (bII, bIII, #IV, bVI and bVII) to a Major scale, yet mantaining a melodical and harmonical correlation to all its actual natural ones?" Just to share the fun ! Drummer has more than 40 years of experience, been playing with some of the biggest names in the jazz world, bassist "only" 25 years of experience. They will appreciate. One more thing : listen to Chaplin's tune "smile" : Only two accidentals in the melody, rest is purely diatonic. Tune is great , been played by lots of musicians. Lends itself to reharmonisation, listen to this arrangement and reharm. Listen, hear, transcribe, learn what you can from it. Or keep sticking up with miserable questions that are absolutely meaningless, thinking that this kind of questions make you wise... They just proove the true musical level of the person asking such
things. I don't give a shit about your misery, what bothers me is that this kind of absolute BS drags people down. Stay in your own poo, you don't need to share it's smell with others.
One question Freetobestolen,jaq,MMJ, whoever you are: Which key does she sing it in ? Just take a tuning fork and figure it out. If you can't do it just using the tuning fork use an instrument! What is the interval between the tuning fork "A" and the key she sings it in ? Can you name it ?

 

Last edited: Jun 15, 2021

I once met a Turkish musician in France (I'm also a Turkish musician in France lol) who kept asking me to play microtones on the electric guitar. At first I was like "uh dude this is an equal temperament instrument" but then I realized he just meant string bending. So I started to work on that string and he creamed his Turkish pants.

 

Thanks for the question. I think Jacob answers it perfectly.
Let's not make it harder than it has to be. You can do anything you want. People just love to make music complicated. Just listen to the melody, pick a note and pick a chord. Boom you're done. bII, bIII, #IV, bVI and bVII? Just do it, it's not magical -at all-

 

There are really limitless options .

Here is a bit of information related to what happens when you create a even number of notes in a scale .

Let's say we started with C major

CDEFGAB

But , then added the #5th in .

CDEFGG#ABC

1. CEGA Cmaj6 or Amin7 [ relaxed
2.DFG#B G7or C#7, or A#7, or E7 [ tense
3. EGAC same as 1
4.FG#BD same as 2
5.GACE same as 1
6.G#BDF same as 2
7.ACEG same as 1
8.BDFG# same as 2

We get amazing properties.

Two chords that have a relationship.
Each note in the scale has a harmony .

All notes and chords are manifestation of a single chord ( then a resolution to it )

It is a major or a minor
It is 4 different dominant chords .

The notes line up with the beats of a measure.

 

.

 

Last edited: Jun 15, 2021