Drivels, yes AND no.
It has its deepness, somewhat, and it seems people are moved by the topic, in a way.

I think we could agree that Mike Oldfield has made some nice pop songs.

Then, what is pop music ?...
Is it a style ?... No.
Is it an inner song quality ?... Yes.
What is the "Pop Music" quality ?...
Could it be defined by some musical structures ?... Not really.
Could it be defined by having some easily remembered gimmicks ?...
Yes, partially, but not totally. Strong gimmicks seem necessary, but not enough, for a song to be received as "pop music".
Could it be defined as to be simple, with repetitions ? Necessary but not enough.
Is it some specific moods, within the feelings pallet ?... Maybe there is also something about that.
.

 

@Talmi you claim "Pop isn't usually viewed as a genre in France". Nevertheless, the topic is "Europeans suck in POP". I think the thread opener was meaning "in pop genre". Now, as far as I can see, some people here deny "pop" is a style/genre and associate it with the term "popular", hence call the "tubular bells" theme "a pop tune" just because well known (or because the same author put out some pop tunes too). Here we just call it "a popular tune" perhaps "rock progressive", "neoclassical", "alternative", "ambient", "new age"... whatever. Not certainly "pop". Again, it could be a question of language barrier (meaning: English mother tongue guys get confused by the term "pop", because it reminds the concept of "popular". Here (Italy) "pop" is and remains the genre, being a song popular or not doesn't matter. Rock, reggae, electronic, jazz, symphonic, ambient, punk etc. it is not because they become top chart hits they become "pop"). Regarding France, maybe the lack of definition among the people is due to the fact 99% of French light music is pop? Would you call Alan Stivell, Brassens or Ravel "pop"?!

 

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At this stage I'm pretty convinced that "pop" is a feeling, but neither a genre nor a popularity topic.

As for the thread opener, we can't extrapolate what the meaning was for him, he did not specify.

 

@Grok

What is pop music ?...
Is it a style ?... YES
Is it an inner song quality ?... YES
Could it be defined by some musical structures ? YES.

 

Don't like to quote myself but

You still haven't explained in which way pop is a genre beyond its format, so, I don't get your argument at all and can't respond.

THIS THREAD WAS MADE BY THE HOUSE TROLL, PLEASE DON'T FEED !

 

Last edited: Aug 19, 2018

THIS THREAD WAS MADE BY THE HOUSE TROLL, PLEASE DON'T FEED !

 

Last edited: Aug 19, 2018

Sorry, language barrier. Here (Italy) we call "musica leggera" (light music) all those "verse-chorus" musical genres such as rock, pop, disco, reggae, latino,folk etc. which are usually charachtrised by simple chord progressions, short length, lyrics and catchy tunes, to distinguish it from "classical" (symphonic) music, experimental music etc.

Maybe you did not read my previous posts? I already wrote how you can recognize pop style (it's a genre, here) and how you can build a pop song.

 

THIS THREAD WAS MADE BY THE HOUSE TROLL, PLEASE DON'T FEED !

 

Last edited: Aug 19, 2018

I agree to disagree

Why don't you talk about feelings ?

You will agree that music and feelings are related.

If you don't approach the question of feelings, then you don't approach a part of what makes music.

...Then, your mind conception could try to lead you to behave like mechanical, and try to remove a part of what makes you human. Anyway, we are probably not there ; I know your italian culture makes you close to feelings, then you can integrate them in the philosophy you're developing

 

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@Talmi Given the fact definitions are a sticky wicket, expecially in music (I agree with this), they exist. I think one of the main reasons "pop music" is not easy to define as a genre is because it draws upon dance, rock, latin, country, folk, classical music styles.

The way to define a tune "a pop song" is:
(1) basic verse-chorus structure;
(2) 3-4 minutes length;
(3) easy singable lyrics;
(4) 4/4 rhythm;
(5) basic chord progression (Harmony and chord progressions in pop music are often "that of classical European tonality, only more simple-minded. Clichés include the barbershop quartet-style harmony (i.e. ii – V – I) and blues scale-influenced harmony);
(6) good for families and tv-radio shows;
(7) commercial (aim is business, not art);
(8) typical POP arrangement (so that you can easily distinguish a pop song from e.g. a rock, blues, jazz, electronic whatever tune)

OF COURSE we are not talking of math science. 9 times out of 10 elements are mixed together, so you can find "pop-rock", "electro-pop", "disco-pop", you can even find pop stars playing rap etc. The pop nuance remains, however: due to the fact most of grandmas and kids can sing these songs. OK, they can sing folk songs and Brassens, too. This does not mean Brassens is pop. At least, here (Italy) we can immediately grasp the difference: different arrangement, different theme, different lyrics, different mood... Etc.

 

Come on guys, stop feeding the troll.
You'all haven't stumbled upon the internet yesterday, have you?

 

P.S. Here we are HORRIFIED by this thing:

This is the most important hymn in Italy, it belongs to our antifascist tradition, this song is practically our NATIONAL ANTHEM. This is an example of "pop": they took a traditional song (almost sacred in Italy) and transformed it in a (daft) pop song. As you can see, "pop" is a style. If it was for me I would call the International Court of Human Rights in order to erase this offensive shit. But, hey... for U.S. kids this is "cool" I guess?

 

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I don't actually care about fosty original thread, the debate regarding genre classification in music is interesting though, it's mostly why I've been participating so far.

THIS THREAD WAS MADE BY THE HOUSE TROLL, PLEASE DON'T FEED !

THIS THREAD WAS MADE BY THE HOUSE TROLL, PLEASE DON'T FEED !

Sorry I'm still unconvinced as hell, you stick to the same format argumentation which just isn't relevant as I've explained previously.
So I'll just agree to disagree, and won't engage in further argument (well on my side, on your side it's mostly a loop)

As MMJ2017 probably would say : good travel forward good sir

 

Last edited: Aug 19, 2018

@MHEO , I don't know where have you found that "pop music must be 4/4", this single false consideration among others ruins what you say and introduces you as an ignoramus of the music, that's why you could revise all this, to appear better.

It's alright for me, I've said all I felt to say, I stop there, thanks very much everyone

 

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@Talmi it is not that you cannot make a cover out of such songs. We keep making new covers in Italy, in punk style, reggae, even rock, dance and blues, with the difference the musicians KNOW WELL WHAT THEY ARE PLAYING and rise up their fists while playing it (so does the audience). Because this is the most important antifascist song we have. Playing that commercial shit, just because a netflix serie is popular in America is just like shitting in Church for money. I seriously doubt U.S. kids know what antifascist communist struggle means. Ok, this is out of thread. I'm out, too. Bye.

 

It is exactly because they became chart hits that they are named as pop. Pop started as a means to translate easy listening music of any kind as i explained earlier. The past 35-40 years though it has become a synonym for tracks that are manufactured to sell using a certain known formula towards certain target groups, instead of songs made by artistic expression.
MJ was soul/rnb/disco, a frequent on the Billboard RnB chart, and suddenly he was King of Pop with the exact same musical material and no deviation towards lighter material, on the contrary, tracks like Dirty Diana sound quite harder and lyrically more "edgy" than his earlier body of work. Record sales and marketing execs determined how MJ was named as such, and the name "king of pop" has nothing to do with what kind of music MJ played. I am really tired explaining over and over.
Y'all be well

 

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Too much time on your hands guys.

8 pages of mental self-masturbation over pop songs, this is a new one, even for this forum.

 

Not quite enough, @Boosire :D

Seems like a pretty fair idea of foster / @art.movement.style to look at the ESC. And he might be on to something. Also: whatev happened to the @foster911 acct? :O

Anyway, why not look at the entries; instead of arguing about pop eating itself? Here's my opinion as a megasuperultraproducer (guy who messes around w/ muzak for a few mins per day =)

Although Germany went full Hasslehoff, much of the rest is just generic (Australia wtf) rather than too awful. I feel like this overall homogenization (Zimmerization) is worse than music that merely "sucks" (and maybe entertains at least =) Slovenia did alright - they're almost good enough to have had @Spyfxmk2 as their producer! Liked Cyprus mix / choices, song twas ok albeit undemanding. I enjoyed (for at least two reasons) the Moldova entry. Mainly cos the lyrics were about number ones and twos. But also cos it went a lil off script. And used the cheesiest synth brass possible! Anyway, I hope all of the non-English entries do well. I was disappointed by Finland. And the Cymatics template song, or whatev it's called =( Cos I feel like it's home of music. Cos everyone plays an intrument that I've met who comes from this paradise!

Norway & Sweden BOTH offended my delicate sensibilities w/ "That's How You Write a Song nao George Micheal is dead and won't Dance You Off (press charges..)" >____> also for dancing and looking like they're on the titles to Friends =( Apologies if they were actually on the titles to Friends.

Yeah, compare & contrast to the endless masculine rhymes of pop act (fo sho defo) Toto, my lovely shiny chum, @taskforce! :D Anyway, point is, pop lyrics shouldn't rly be analysed! God, the terrible, mawkish Beatles lyrics *ugh* Don't even get me started on the muzak!

 

@MHEO
Very final little counter-examples to this 4/4 false very foolish ignoramus absurd statement :

I quit, thank you everybody.

 

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