Hey guys.

im pretty new to this forum but maybe you can help me out.

Im working as an Orchestral Composer but i wanted to switch to Epic Music/Trailer Music because i think i fit more into this genre.
Composing, creating dynamic chords and creating an realistic symphony is not my problem but:

i cant figure out how to create the ,,epicness“.
The sound always comes out as a more ,,orchestral and symphonic“ one then epic one.
For example if you take the songs:
2WEI - Blindside
Samuel Kim - Moonlight Sonata
League of Legends - Bring home the glory

I can create the same soundscapes, the mood, the chords, realistic strings, perfect matching brasses, but mine just doesnt sound epic.
Libaries i use:
Mostly spitfire audio (also BBC Pro)
Audio Imperia Jaeger
Damage 2
And alot of Trailer Effects like Xpression 1-3
And heavyocity Symphonic Destruction, Novo ect.

Maybe someone can help me out, or give me some good advices!

maybe there is also a special mixing technique?

hope this was the right thread btw. If not, maybe the admins can move it?

P.s.
Sorry about my english skills

rapid

 

you might consider posting some of the cues you have demoed and maybe we could tell you what might be wrong or what you are missing. from what you wrote above, sounds like you might be overlooking the songwriting portion (melody topline, and how that creates momentum) and also a lot of the "bigness" just comes from mixing and deciding on a dynamic arrangement that has room to grow into the "big epic" part.

 

Last edited: Feb 10, 2023

There is a simple rule:

„Don’t try to sound realistic, you have to sound convincing!“

That means the key is layering! Double your brass with a different brass library. Give them some „steroids“ by using plugins such as OTT. Double your staccato ostinatos with spicattos to get more attack.

 

hey, thank you for your reply!

Sent a demo here, so you guys can see what im working on.

its still in progress:
Drums are still in work,
Horns are still in work,
Havent mixed and mastered yet,, just simple panning, placing the instruments and some LA2A, Punish and Stereo Widener
Simple EQ to cut the lows.

Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_nG1OCqIDfjODnuXcoJlBpfAwc4F7X06?usp=share_link

Hope this is helpfull

WAV File is inside too

 

Last edited: Oct 27, 2022

Well this is the strange part:
Im used to work with legatos and harmonics. As soon as i work with Brass/String Legatos and harmonize them with different chords i get the orchestral touch. But thats i guess the problem i have to work on too.
thank you for your reply btw !

 

The file you requested has been blocked for a violation of our Terms of Service.

You could upload your wav to Google Drive or use a free hoster (anon, filedropper, gofile, sharefast, ...).

 

oh ok thank you for the information.

changed it to google drive

 

I listened to your references and your track.
What I got from the references: use a lot of reverb, high amount and long. Almost everything is closed to be drowned in it, apart from one or two instruments and the main vocs but even they have quite a lot of it.
The main difference I found between yours and the others tracks is that they're using faster notes for some instruments (string runs, drum rolls) to create that typical drive. And they're layered like hell. Could be they also used synths to make it even more fat.
Other than that your track is good, sounds a bit like a copy, but it's good.

 

In general, agree with No Avenger and thanks for posting your work so we can all learn. Still, before giving any suggestions, can you give the story behind this work. If I am not mistaken, it's a cover/remake/orchestration of Without You by Smoove & Turrell. Who is the singer? Did you record that? It's good in my opinion... ofc if it's not a secret ;)

 

It needs to breathe some, there should be an illusion of dynamics even when there any.

It's not bad work, it just needs a lighter touch.

There is a kid @Recoil ✪ that swims in the same pond, from Poland I think. Maybe you guys should talk if you can grab a hold of him, seems like a good kid.

Some one should throw that kid some work if they can get a hold of him and he is willing.

 

Last edited: Oct 28, 2022

I actualy used a lot of reverb and synth here but i think its the drums here and there.
Still working on them, havent put any rolls or anything in there. Also i havent worked with a lot of synth before, because i didnt really need them.
Maybe i will have to take a look on them too

thank you for your opinion and review!

 

Hey!
Uhm, actualy i wanted to make a cover, pretty close to the original one. Its still different but yes its smoove and turrell without you.

i started this one because i thought its different to the mostly used songs like ,,in the end“ or ,,cant help falling in love with you“ but still uses some basic ,,epic“ and ,,melanchonic“ chords.

the singer is a freelancer i know (she doesnt want to be named, im sorry…). She recorded the vocals at home, with direct instruction from me where to sing the vocals and where to position the mic because of the hall i wanted to create.

she is a pretty decent singer in my opinion.

i actualy wanted to create a completly different mood, more POP like with more synthy/electric drums and trailer drums without any rim shots and so on. I even wanted to work on a higher pitch, like i sent in the demos.

Fun fact: mostly in my work i start with the ,,biggest“ part, in that case the epic part (the end) because thats where i build my ideas on.

also its the ending song to my first album i want to release.

But yeah, this is the little background story.
Hope it helped :D

 

Thanks for the advice!
I will try to make contact to him, if there is any possibility.

 

I hear absolutely nothing wrong with your track Good job. I would have thought I was listening to an "Epic album".

 

Oh, thank you !!!

 

Thanks for the "behind the scenes" info. There is ofc nothing wrong about bringing a song from a certain genre to an epic orchestral piece. In fact in your reference tracks some composers are doing the same (except, you probably have to contact the guys before you put this on the album, Beethoven can't complain about the sonata ;) anyway, that's a different story..)

Really nice vocals, that's why I asked. tbh, I thought you got an accapella somewhere.

Apart from what the guys already said I have little to add. Like No Avenger mentioned, try layering some lines with a synthesizer or other instruments when phrases are repeating, ear candy like light string runs and short ostinatos. Experiment with sounds that maybe you think would never fit - may help break from standard orchestral sound.

Great advice! Since this piece's repetitiveness is part of aesthetics it is difficult to just say you should just throw in some pauses and cresc./decresc. Instead try some of the above tricks on the last part..

All in all, good work. And ofc good luck!

 

hey sorry for the late response, im on vacation!
Thank you for the advices! Also to everyone else replying here!

i will try to layer the drums now, maybe with some rolls. Also i will play more with the synths, double the string spiccatos to get more power. I recently found put about heavyocity punish, to get a bit more distortion. Also in the drums!

so thank you all, glad i entered this forum!

rapid

 

Sorry for the slight OT but can't help posting this masterpiece. Hard to get more epic than this: orchestra, choirs, operatic-like vocalist and prog-metal...

Nightwish - Ghost Love Score