Enough is Enough... Buy it!!!, or You will be considered an arshole

Discussion in 'Internet for Musician' started by Rhodes, Jun 23, 2017.

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  1. Exidus

    Exidus Rock Star

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    OK, I will play :)
    But lets leave Morals aside and may be pay attention to Ethics

    I understand your logic, @Rhodes
    We are doing what we are doing, but isnt it for a real test purposes? To really feel if this plugin/daw/soft will fit our workflow, give us the results that we expect... We can read inn every R2R nfo EXACTLY what these releases are... Otherwise we end up to be thiefs...
    I have never condemned anyone for not be able or want to buy certain software. Its everybody's decision what to do. But if you tell me that it is ethical to make money with a tool that is in a way stolen, than we are clearly on a different pages. It is a simple logic that we have wrote hundreds of times and agreed upon: If no one buys the software, soon there will be no new software. I would love to if we live in a different world where all is accessible and there is no money but the reality is that we have seen not one and two developers stopping everything because of piracy. (Small disclaimer here: I am not working in any software developing companies).
    The thing is that the market is really complex and innovations are harder and harder just because of the sheer number of developers and approaches already realized in form of plugins, DAWs and whatnot.. Any new developer will struggle to stay afloat (esp. sound-designers - samples, presets, etc.). Put on top of this the fact that the new pack he just released (after n-amount of work) gets released a day or two after the premiere and you are getting the picture..
    Of course, there is the valid argument that if the given software is good, priced properly and doesnt have annoying protections that dev will survive.
    The bottom line for all this is:
    The people that make the plugins we enjoy also have to put food on the table , pay rents and look out for their families.
    If you are serious about what you do and how you do your music, you have to invest more than your time (like in psychotherapy) and pay respect to the people that made the tools that you use. If you are playing and having fun with the toys you find, released from the generous cracking crews that we all love - than enjoy your time with them...
     
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  2. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Audiosexual

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    i would be for a delay phase for products, including small and big devs.
    lets be honest in that phase most of the buys happens, because people cant stand the desire to not own it.
    but nobody is following this, within a few days or even less after release its posted.
     
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  3. C7

    C7 Member

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    I personally don't lose much sleep over not supporting developers, they can all go bankrupt and become homeless for all I care. Most plugin developers do nothing more than steal other peoples designs, slap their pretty user interface on top of it, and then make outrageous claims about how you need their ingenious plugin or your music will suck. I also end up deleting pretty much 90% of plugins and sample libraries I download because in the end everything really sounds the same (usually no better than DAW plugins) and nothing out there is really ground breaking.

    On top of all of this you have companies charging hundreds and even thousands of dollars for software. This is software people, 1s and 0s and these companies have the audacity to treat it like hardware. They probably outsource all their programming to India for under a $1 an hour and put a minimal amount of effort into their offerings. Then they lie about all this research that supposedly went into their product, what a load of crap. These people are no better than the record labels and are leeches exploiting hardworking musicians. I sincerely hope the open source scene continues to develop and eventually surpasses and destroys the commercial sector.
     
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  4. Maizelman

    Maizelman Rock Star

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    Pretty much everything said there :wink:

    At first I would sympathize with that thought. Sounds fair from a seller's perspective. But I know of noone who really had to shutdown shop only because of his stuff beeing k'd and distributed freely all over the net. Bill Gates had not to and now he is the ritchest b**ch of the planet and maybe the whole universe. Only because everyone copied his shit and gave it away for free. If a product is useful enough i think it will be bought. Especially if one uses the mainstream distibution channels, which should not be a problem for anyone anymore in our times, it will find enough buyers.

    And I think that romantic delay phase would be impossible to enforce. Every Kracker wants to be first on point with his shit. Think of white walls and graffiti artists. :phunk:
     
  5. Rhodes

    Rhodes Audiosexual

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    @Exidus

    Everything that You wrote, makes sense (at least to me)...
    But I am not referring to the developers or "reversers"... I am talking about the attitude of a lot of members at AZ...

    Comments like "You are a prick if You don`t buy it", "You have to buy it","You have to support the small devs" and so on; went just out of hand IMO...
    Thousands of people download cracked software for thousands of different reasons: Need, Curiosity, Addiction, Boredom, Lack of money, Compulsion, Learning, etc...
    Who cares why they do it, it is their business... no need to read always the same mantra "YOU HAVE TO BUY IT!"

    There are countries where 50$ is a monthly wage! ...You expect them to buy all the plugins or daws they are interested in ???
    Of course not, they are thankful, a site like AZ exists, and i bet they wouldn`t mind a few months delay like @ArticStorm suggested.

    Just please stop acting as a police officer with every release... it is not appropriate for a place like AZ in my opinion... like @SineWave suggested, You don`t go to a drug dealer and talk about how bad drugs are :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  6. 5teezo

    5teezo Audiosexual

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    Help me to wrap my head around this:

    So, the OP tells a story about how he bought like 3 plugins in 20 years but used cracked ones by the 100s most of the times? And now he is calling out other people who basically do the same? Nice double standard! Or did I miss something?
     
  7. m9cao

    m9cao Producer

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    do note feel guilty bro, you only need is full version DAW soft, never buy those shit software plug, never!
    if you have some money to waste, buy hardware effect!
     
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  8. Exidus

    Exidus Rock Star

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    @Rhodes

    In my country the wage is $150 so I know what you are talking about. And I am not trying to act as a police and I am not insulting anybody (pretty sure these remarks where not meant for me but still...). All I am saying is if you use, make money from them and you like the developer - try to find a way to show it. I understand that there are people that will never be able or want to do it. And I am fine with this.. Again - Its each and everyone's decision... But you are right that name calling should stop...

    On the side note - Our scene is not accepted with warm regards from the developers side. Although it is true that by cracking certain soft it gets much more popularity and for me personally - I would have bought almost nothing if I didnt had the opportunity to test it with some of the releases, it is pretty difficult for the devs to swallow the potential lost clients. So my thought is this - If the developers realize that not a small percentage of their sales comes from people that in some point in time had the opportunity to test a cracked version of their software it will be easier for everybody...
     
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  9. Sylenth.Will.Fall

    Sylenth.Will.Fall Audiosexual

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  10. Rhodes

    Rhodes Audiosexual

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    You missed something... I use a daw, a reverb, an amp sim, a piano and a Rhodes... all paid for.
    For the rest I use real instruments and analog gear.
    I have tested hundreds of plugins, just to find out that I absolutely don`t like them and don`t need them.

    But it is not about what I need and use... take a few more minutes reading the thread if You are interested.
     
  11. Maizelman

    Maizelman Rock Star

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    @Exidus
    I think the audio software market is really saturated in some areas and it would be absolutely natural if some of the greedy bastards who just copy another product went bankrupt.

    @Rhodes
    A shame that products aren't sold much cheaper in those countrys with really weak economys. Funny thing: I saw that the rewards for uploaders at some filehosters are the highest if downloads are from the richest european states.
    Another funny thing: I actually talked with drug dealers about how bad some drugs are.. they aren't all dumb junkies. But I get what you wanted to point out and am with that bro.:cheers:
     
  12. Aliens

    Aliens Guest

    Through the years the main tenet of all the crack groups has been try before you buy, support the developers and buy it if you use it.
    Of course there are people who will never be able to purchase these programs, and I don't begrudge them being able to make music for free, even if it does go against the teams principles. No elitist crap from me.

    On the flip side of that, are crack using pro musicians and studios and those who can chuck down cheese burgers and a six pack on a daily basis with their disposable income. Sure, these people who can, but won't do the right thing, are arseholes. No getting away from it.

    I've bought what I use and am happy with that. So at least when I'm called an arse, it's not because I'm a wilful free loader. ;)
     
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  13. DoveEye

    DoveEye Member

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    To have all the money in the world means you are able to buy everything, thats great. I love it!
     
  14. grdh20

    grdh20 Platinum Record

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    I'm of the mind that the actual loss of sales is much less than one would expect since, at least in some cases, a lot of us would never have even heard of half this stuff let alone seek it out to purchase. On the other hand some of this becomes a must purchase for a lot of us after discovering it here or simply an extended trial. I am 100% of the mind that if any of this stuff is used for professional purposes to cut tracks for resale or fee, that the right thing to do is purchase, but many of us (maybe most of us even) just dabble at home studios and just like trying new stuff for the fun of it and shouldn't really be counted as lost sales since that portion of us wouldn't buy or couldn't afford to but most of what they download anyway. All that said, it's still stealing no matter what, but I have seen some of the developers actually tolerate it actively and use sites like this a s a test bed of sorts. Nevertheless, a culture of getting free digital stuff off the internet is as old as the internet. It's a hard habit to break.
     
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  15. Deathklok

    Deathklok Member

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    @Rhodes I see your point.

    That said, I hope everyone downloads your music illegally rather than streaming it on Spotify or purchasing it at all, so you don't receive a single penny. I also hope you receive absolutely no compensation for every single one of your live shows. Also, it would be great if you no longer get a paycheck from your employer and effectively work for free.

    Who needs money... amirite? :)
     
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  16. TW

    TW Guest

    Who cares? It is something everybody has to decide for himself. I dont care if someone buys what he uses or not. I like to buy software that is in my goto workflow. Or is not super high prized. But again who cares. I am glad for the posibility to check out a lot of plugins relativly easy. thx AZ and r2r and all other grooups.
     
  17. m9cao

    m9cao Producer

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    if these developer knows they cannot make mony from theirs soft
    why not develop a hardware?
     
  18. Exidus

    Exidus Rock Star

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    I think in the end we should listen to our own higher-self about these things... The rule for me is "Dont do damage, especially if no damage has been done to you!"

    And although I am among the people that make comments in the sense of "Support if you can" I dont mean to judge anybody and I am always doing it from my personal experience that the software (developer) is useful/unique/has friendly and responsive support, etc... altogether for me I have decided that I will be happy to part with some of my limited assets to show my appreciation

    People who are trying to be judgmental in that manner should try to look in their own cup first. To call someone names just because for some reason he/she doesnt want to spend money on code, shouldnt be tolerated...
     
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  19. PopstarKiller

    PopstarKiller Platinum Record

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    I laugh every time I see those ridiculous comments on AZ. Really, why would they even go there if they are against pirating?

    I doubt most of us would buy many plugins in any case, because most of them aren't anything special or better than stock/free ones. New ones are just fun to play with, with their fancy GUIs and bombastic claims by their developers. :no:
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  20. Exidus

    Exidus Rock Star

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    Dont think that any of the guys/gals writing these (me included) have something against piracy...
    In any case the point is in the judgmental positions of some of these, ie. If you dont buy this you are..(insert insult here).
     
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