Hey all.

As an old rocker my experience prior to DAW recording was Guitar-Boogie/Marshall/Fender-mic-room mics-tape.

And then I got old and fat and lazy (well, not fat) and leapt all over Guitar Rig/Amplitube/etc.

Sometimes a combo of the two.

But as we know, time is a factor when producing music for any given production and although these plugs do a pretty ok job at what they do sometimes I listen back to the results and feel...somewhat underwhelmed. Its ok, but...nyeeeh.

So Ive been looking at load boxes like UA,s "OX" or perhaps Two Notes Torpedo, etc.

Im running a fairly simple setup with mainly old Fenders and Gibsons through an old JCM head with a bunch of pedals.

Im pretty certain that some of you cats are using load boxes to record with. Im interested in your experience and whether the results are that much better than using simulators. Pro's/con's/etc.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated before I run off and spend several grand on disappointment.

 

Last edited: Aug 23, 2021

Well the OX is certainly on the top of its game,
very fine-tuned, seems to take Amp's tones very well and be true to the source..

Ofc it's got a sound of its own, being dynamic and coloured like a real Cab,
but somewhat more direct and present like a D.I.,
all in all I think it's hard to beat even for the best cab sims out there..


That being said I don't think Torpedo is much better than say Amplitube's Cabs,
which on my book are the best Cabs in a VST plug so far..

In Amps there could be better things, like the new Nembrini stuff,
but as far as Cabs goes AT4 is still the best imo..

And it's what I use to record my POD HD500,
the tone and versatility of those cabs make a night and day difference vs Pod's stock cabs.. like miles ahead!

So yeah, I'd try to use those real Amps with Amplitube's Cabs and see where I can take it.

If AT's result isn't good enough, then probably Torpedo won't be too different.
If that' the case then only the OX may save you..

 

Last edited: Aug 23, 2021

Let's take a look at the famous guitarists - they are on stage and play. In the background a marshall - then some effects and his guitar! He knows the sound he is playing by heart and he can also re-code the sound that he recorded in the recording studio live.

Is the software good or bad to work with? Yes and no

If you are a beginner, it is helpful to listen to what is available. All amplifiers in the world, thousands of euros floor kicks and and and. I would do it like this, choose an amplifier, for example Fender Twin Amp 65 and see if the amplifier type is digitally emulated. Add to that his effects pedals that you use and know and then screw around a little.

I think you should have an idea of the sound beforehand and then use this software. Browsing through hundreds to thousands of files only leads to frustration. Every few seconds a different sound, I think it's more difficult to differentiate because you overload your brain with it - there is too much information.

Many people know the difficulties: deciding which software to use - which preset - can you operate the software - how difficult is it to learn - is it worth the time invested. But that is the digital age - where the analog is digitized. I think you can save a lot of money and try out a lot of sounds.

The analog rocker becomes a digital rocker ....!
Your PC does the math for you and takes a lot of work from you - hence the feeling of being under-challenged.
Software lasts forever and doesn't take up any space and is very cheap.

 

For the way he speaks, and having a real Fender, Marshall and MesaBoogie amps,
I don't think the OP is much of a beginner at all..


I can agree with what you said tho,
browsing thru the Infinite number of possibilities VSTs and Pod-like Modellers offer can be stressful and frustrating..

One can spend hours just trying to match amps and cabs,
and then entire days just fine-tuning the stuff.. but how much Music you played?

The tone/sound can indeed get to be very "realist" and close to what you had in mind,
good enough to Work with.. but in the end, how does it Feel when Playing?

How does it React to your playing?
are your hands Electrified?
does it move the Air on your back like a real Cab?


Also I'm more into Fusion (Funk/Rock/Jazz/Blues..) than say Rock/Metal,
so that makes it harder to dial a proper tone..

It's very Easy to get a proper Chugga-chugga tone, or a standard Lead tone like I donno Vai/Satch/Trucci..
But dialing the right Fusion Mojo tone that not only sounds right, but Feels right to play is something very difficult with Digital modellers..

So yeah I can agree and understand where you're coming from..

And it's actually one of the reasons why non-beginners,
or even Pro guitarists can have a hard time capturing those tones on the digital world..

 

Last edited: Aug 23, 2021

I have the Two Notes Torpedo Captor (8 ohms). A good choice to record my Mesa Boogie Express 5:25 directly in my DAW (Ableton)

 

OP, when using the amp sims, are you plugging your guitar directly into the audio interface or using some DI/buffer? If not, maybe try giving the IK Multimedia Z-Tone device a shot.
I always hated the sound of the two I have, Amplitube & GR. However, I've found the new Amplitube 5 to be miles ahead of previous versions in and of itself and GR6 seems to have improved as well, imo.
Using the Z-Tone has further enhanced tone quality coming out of the sims. Had previously found them, at least these two sims I own, to be harsh, brittle, shrill in the distortion department. The newest versions seems to have improved a lot with that. Being able to enhance tone by variably dialing in impedance with the Z-Tone really helps smooth things out.

Of course you can still get shrill and harsh and that's the problem with sims over hardware. You'd be hard pressed to get shit tones out of your favorite amps, but modelers supply you with a million interactive parameters that can easily make them sound awful.

Still hate the pedals modeled though. For some reason I find all the distortion/od ones so atrocious as to be unusable.

 

Started guitar in May as a retirement project and have been looking at buying an amp around Xmas, which should give me time to research.
Don't like most amp sims although Neural DSP Archetype series is decent.
My biggest problem is high gain noise. My Fishman Fluence Classic pickups are supposed to be noiseless
There is no such thing as a noiseless pickup .
I like singing gain and removing hum and hiss cleanly is problematic.
Use a Kilohearts Gate right after my guitar input and then the on board noise gate for whatever sim I'm using.
Shape the attack and releases around each other to mask noise tails and try to avoid clamping down on sustained notes.
Curious if hardware noise gates are any better, on board an amp or otherwise.
Also, I can hear artifacts on long sustained notes.
Am looking forward to trying out amps and recording them miked to hear the difference.

 

The background noise from the amplifier makes me nervous, thank God I found:

- Waves - NS1 Noise Suppressor (4K Ready)
- Brainworx - bx_refinement (Reduce Harshness) 4K Ready

 

I'm not sure but I think the OP only (or sometimes) wants to emulate the cabinet. He uses a real Marshall amp-head. Or he doesn't when using plugins/digital emus...?

You forgot the "Analog", neighbor

 

Make sure to try cabinet impulse responses when going digital. Simply turn off the cabinet section in Amplitube or GTR and load up an IR next to it. There are free options out there, I'm using Lancaster Audio's Pulse to load IRs.

Edit:
Pro: Almost an indentical sound (better than stock cabinets in those plugins)
Con: You cant mess around with the mic placements but they ususally record impulses with different mic settings

 

I don't know if this applies to you or not, but if you face your monitor while tracking it could cause noise issues, try turning away from it or moving off to the side when tracking.

 

This is something I heard several times. They're more advanced than your average IR cab emulation.

 

I've liked the Strymon Iridium. It sounds much more reactive to my playing than any pure software based products that I have tried so far. Compared to many other hardware it is cost effective and can also take advantage of any 96K impulse responses that you find to your liking.

 

It's like Torpedo's W.O.S., but more Featured and capable..

Like, you've got 2 Close mics, and 2 Ambient mics.
They can be placed in 3D, in any spot of the virtual room..

And ofc you can choose the type of microphones, being top notch emulations.

Then there's all this Cabs to choose from, but even more,
you can change/choose every Speaker inside of the cab from a very complete collection..

Spoiler: Screenshots

So yeah it's a bit like the mad-lab of the cabinet world,
where you can potentially make your ideal cab, or adjust it until it works best with your Amp/tone.

Most VST offer you only the close mics, one, or less often two,
and some like Torpedo also One Amb mic and room simulation.

But having all of this features gives you a lot of options to choose from,
and the sound is good, just natural sounding and like what you would expect from a properly simulated cab..

Ofc it's not Perfect, and very probably the OX method is Better,
but in terms of only Software it's the best I've seen/tried.

(And that's why I said, if AT Cabs is not good enough for you,
probably Torpedo won't be much different.. so the next safe step would be the OX, imo)


Amplitube 5 uses the same method/system and source material, so it's like +90% the same thing..

However the sound is a bit different, maybe warmer?, and it's got a few less Cabs included..
(in fact not Cabs but different takes/samples of those cabs, where AT4 can have Modern 1 2 3, or Metal 1 2 3,
AT5 will have only 1 & 2.. and those are different takes of the same cab, but with little differences in Presence/tone)

 

Last edited: Aug 23, 2021

Wow. Some great responses here and a few pieces of kit that I haven't heard of. The IK Multimedia Z-Tone looks interesting but the W.O.S could be the game changer for me. My style is more classical, blues, rock than metal and generally the YouTube reviews for these things are done by metal players producing a sound so distorted ad lacking in nuance (IMHO) that their tones could be produced with a cheap fuzz box.

I agree that Amplitube 5 is a vast improvement on previous versions but the W.O.S appears to be the go.

Much to think about here. Some great responses. Thanks.

 

I'm hard rock but draw a wavy line as far as metal is concerned. I find much of it a bit too too, heh. Did not know of WOS, and the price is great. Might get.

Regardless of what amp sim you use though, that z-tone helps quite a bit imo.

 

Yeah, I reckon you might be onto something there. I just plugged the Universal Audio Marshall Plexi set to clean/crunch into the W.O.S Mesa cabinets and whoa - sounds pretty amazing to my ears. I don't often grab my Telecaster much but what a fantastic combination. I'll definitely be purchasing the W.O.S Mesa pack and Ill hav a good look at one of those z-tones too.

Mucho thanko.

 

Watching a vid about the WOS now. Didn't quite understand the purpose of it having a power amp section at first but now see that if you want to use a hardware preamp or distortion pedal with guitar then into your audio interface, power amp sims are provided. In that case, depending on what pedal used, it could provide a bit of buffered signal.

Using Strat & Tele myself as well, they were too 'screechy' thin in previous sim versions. Like mostly the sound was of strings clanking against frets, lol. A5 did fix that a lot. I've never used 3rd party cabs before though and something like WOS might alleviate much of what is bad about one's particular amp sim that a DI/buffer or Z-Tone can as well. Ah hell, think I'm gonna spring for it, heh.

Good luck with it.

 

Here's a thing for your ears using the Strymon Iridium. I like the transition between clean and breakup which is fun to surf. Xupito's Dog is something that I posted before.


https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/Ub4Y8

 

I usually go direct into the board with a JHS Colour Box V2...sounds amazing on it's own, but you can reamp it later. If you don't play well with direct...well, do what I did and sell all your guitars and buy a Prophet 5..problem solved.