Hi, do those who produce house music tune your kicks?
Do you start with the sample in key or transpose them?
If I sample a kick from a song that is in A and move it to G it loses it's punch and also I notice slight distortion is that normal or is there a way to transpose your kick to keep the punch some kind of plugin?
Any tips.
Cheers.

 

there are lots of good plugins which can help with kick drums, and of course compression. But one thing you mentioned, is sampling from other tracks. I would not advise you to do that. There are so many good 1 shot kick samples that you can work with, so that you can start out cleanly and from scratch and really build a somewhat original kick you like and can get used to processing with more attention to details just from repeat use of it.

pitching your drums is always important, but everything about a 4/4 house, trance, or techno kick is very important. it's a huge percentage of your track.

 

Ain't gonna lie when ever I use samples and referencing to a track theirs always sounds better, rounder, fuller, higher, and no matter what I do to match it or try with hundreds of kick samples, spending hours, it never sounds good so I just end up taking theirs.
I just spent hours trying kicks and all mine distorted in my car, swapped it with theirs and no distortion.
It's something I need to spend time on but to get tracks finished at the moment it's quicker to just sample theirs.
I'm also finding as the kick in the track is the loudest peak to 0db in reference tracks that have been mastered I can just take theres and run it straight out to my final limiter with no gain and it will be sweet. And then mix everything around that.

 

oh, I get it. but what I am suggesting is basically, doing what many of those producers you are sampling from did, too. It is formulaic, but they develop a few kicks they just know how to process inside and out. and then adjust them to fit better with other tunes.

Do you have any drum machines, or use any of the drum synth VST/AU plugins? Also, have you ever tried to recreate a specific one used that you have sampled from someone else?
I think it would be well worth the time to get your kick sorted out the way you want, because it's half the foundation of your beat. in "drum-centric" music, getting your drums processed right first is really important; or how will you ever get the rest of your mix right? a kick could be disastrous for your tune.

it's one sample. you are armed with a computer.

 

Last edited: May 15, 2021

Yea it is something I'm working on. I can match my samples similar to theirs. I even made a folder of kicks similar shape, length, key, I even think I found the original kick sample they used but when it goes into my car there is a certain little rattle there that isn't in their tracks.
So far I think transposing kicks key isn't good so will start with kicks in key.
I have the roland vst, kick2. Hardly used them. Will experiment with Kick2 later today.
I can mix fine with them, but once in the car there is a little rattle most people prob wouldn't notice. But when your producing, mixing, mastering your own stuff you notice it. I'll sort it.

 

ok well so here is the main thing I see, with using a sample. It is one stupid absolutely critical drum hit. I would not want my DAW or Melodyne or anything having a chance to stretch, or anything. no algorithmic deterioration of the hit whatsoever, if possible.

another way to do that, is using things like flex, stretching, types of modifications (pitch,quantization,etc also). When you stretch a loop, the algorithm to do the math is looking at 4 beats, or 2 measures. instead, you really should avoid letting it apply this all the way across the file, rather; only using those tools on individual hits.

all that is probably happening to some of your files, and then you drop in a file where all that is already done and your daw does no more real manipulation of the playback of that file. it's still the perfect sample you imported at whatever original quality.

what daw?

 

Last edited: May 15, 2021

I always use one shot samples for kicks I never use loops. But even from A down to G it is sounding bung.

 

the sub what you hear is really not what is going on around 50 hz an down use fabfilter to look at that but keep what you hear
in key the top of the sound
lets say the bass is in c put the kick in the lowest note of chord and move it every chord change

 

Nah bo, you put your kick to the key of the root note. You don't move it around every chord, unless you are using it as an 808bass.
And the main fundamental is in the bass.

 

well, so what are you triggering your sample in/with? I do not think the actual pitch/frequency would cause distortion. more likely the distance from the root note of the sample to which you are pitch shifting it to...

What Midi synths have you tried to use for kicks? I still think it's going to be your "cleanest" option to start with. but then your work just becomes replacing some of the character you may have gained by using a sample as your starting point. even then, starting sample quality becomes important.


Could you possibly post or link an example of a kick you are trying to make?

 

Last edited: May 15, 2021

Samples are just triggered, and can be pitch shifted in the daw. FLStudio.
Haven't tried synths for kicks just samples.
That Diplo Sonny Kick which just sounds like a 909 but has a nice hit on it. I shifted it to G. But didn't sound good.
I tired some 909's similar but they didn't hit like that or distorted my car at less volume.
https://vocaroo.com/12pD9sixnnXT

 

there are a bunch of "drum synth" plugins, but you can also make great drums using Serum or a ton of others. then you have absolute control over it. like in Logic, there is Drum Synth plugin and it does not do a bad job at all for a starter. but pitching samples around is going to degrade your sample sound quality, no matter how immeasurable. Using a synth is just a good way to start with a sample which has already been pitched to the note you want; rather than doing it in audio.

 

Sweet I def will give it a go as I need it sorted so I can produce faster. And would like my own kicks. I will try Kick2 tomorrow I think it's synth based.
What genre do you make. Do you mix, master, produce?

 

You're pitching it down so the sampler is slowing the sample down roughly by 10%. This means that the transient (the beginning "kick" or "punch") is going to be flabbier.

You might give a transient shaper a go to liven up the sample and give it more snap/oomph. Also moving the sample start point a bit forward can help counteract the lost punch.

Here's some free shapers, and here's a list of paid for shapers.

I personally use Native's Transient Master, mainly because I'm used to it and it's available in Battery (my drum sampler of choice) and Maschine on top of being a plug-in. But that's just a preference.

 

I do my kicks for years. If you use a really short kick it doesnt really need to be in key with the track. But yeah it could help to be in key of the track. Its really important to understand how much lowend, mid & high you need. How do you mix your Kicks? Speakers helps alot.

Using Kick 2 since the release. I mean your Kick should also sound nice without anything on the masterchain but what helps alot is using multiband compression.

 

that mp3 is at +3db (in logic ). and still clean to me. but about 5 db more than my kick would probably be.
just a hobby. so a bit of everything, but mostly darker stuff dnb,dub,etc.

rob papen Punch is another good one (old). I just loaded it up and some of the presets in it would probably be almost passable as is. so obviously you could make a good kick with it if you made some patches for it too.

 

Thanks! I thought so. Even if I cut the sample close before the transient I found it also lost punch. I think I will just use one in key or like Clone has been commenting a synth generator for the low. Also I manly use transient master for a shaper. Thanks for commenting appreciate it.

I prefer kick in key it gels better. Yes, speakers do help a lot...
I agree kick should sound nice without master or anything on it. The way I'm building I want my kick to be the finish product from the start.

Yea, when I use a sample at similar level,shape to that Diplo Sonny kick it wasn't working and I put theirs in and it was sweet.
Nice, I like dnb, dub. But it also makes me dark so I have to make the lighter side of house.
Have you got Kick2 as well? I just download some presets for it as well to check tomorrow.

 

You also have some problems with the example that you posted.

First of the low end has too much stereo in it. Look like you used the ozone imager with the "stereoize" function activeted or just a really short delay on it.

Then there is too much low end. 100hz & bellow < You should lower it 1-2 dB.

Next thing the lower mids of your attack are too loud. 150hz-500hz < lower it.

It sounds already cleaner with those changes.

 

Last edited: May 15, 2021

Do you have experience with this genre of music? Most kicks sound that loud in the mids and lows. I'm not trying to clean up that example.
The example I posted is a commercially released track in this genre of music and even with stereo, too much low end, loud mids it is still not distorting my speakers so I have no problems with it.

 

Yes like i said i making kicks for the last 4 years.
Future House/Future Bounce/Deep House/Progressive House.

It dont has to be distorted, its just to loud > out of balance. Can be alot cleaner.
And if its more Cleaner/more in balance you get alot more Drive & Groove