Easiest way to start playing Jazz

Discussion in 'Education' started by MMJ2017, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    What is the MOST easy and simple way to start playing jazz right away?

    2 things.

    chords

    melodies

    the idea is to prioritize the millions of things involved in jazz theory, to zero in on what you have to be able to do right away.

    you have a chord progression or chart
    next you have the main melodies involved .

    we want to yes study ALL the things that jazz music theory has involved in it, but it is important to see the context of playing jazz broken down as simple as possible of an understanding involving what are the priorities.
     
    • Winner x 4
    • Like x 3
    • Interesting x 3
    • Useful x 1
    • Creative x 1
    • List
  2.  
  3. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Lets start off with the chords section because the foundation of music and jazz in this instance are the chords themselves and the progressions they make as the foundation scaffolding of the music.

    How are the chords created? also how to chords work?

    How are the chord progressions created? also how do chord progressions work?

    Part I. CHORDS.
    ---------------------
    first the chords come from a KEY.
    you take a C major KEY, its notes are
    C D E F G A B

    Next each note establishes a chord

    we will start with the 9th chords common to jazz

    1.CEGBD Cmajor CEG Cmaj7 CEGB Cmaj9 CEGBD
    2.DFACE Dminor DFA Dmin7 DFAC Dmin9 DFACE
    3.EGBDF Eminor EGB Emin7 EGBD Emin9 EGBDF
    4.FACEG Fmajor FAC Fmaj7 FACE Fmaj9 FACEG
    5.GBDFA Gmajor GBD G7 GBDF G9 GBDFA Dominant
    6.ACEGB A minor ACE Amin7 ACEG Amin9 ACEGB
    7.BDFAC Bhalfdim BDF Bmin7flat5 BDFA Bmin7flat5flat9 BDFAC




    Now each chord has a function

    I chord is home(resolution) V dominant chord is away from home (tension)

    the other chords are a representation of only these 2 chords ( using them gives variety)
    for example the
    ii chord is subdominant (some tension) IV chord is subdominant
    these 2 chords are less tense than the V dominant , but are still representations of "going away from home"

    we have a chord equivalent chart to see what each chors represents ( home or away from home)

    I = Cmaj ii= Dmin iii=Emin IV=Fmaj V=G7 vi=Amin vii=Bmin7flat5
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (I=iii=vi)

    This means Cmaj(Home) has 2 equivalent chords Amin , Emin these 2 have own flavor to them to represent home.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (ii=IV)

    This means Dmin (subdominant)away from home has 2 flavors Fmaj (subdominant) away from home these 2 are not furthest away from homw like V and vii are.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (V7=vii%)

    This means that V7 G7 the Dominant (farthest away from home most tension)
    has 2 flavors G7 and Bmin7flat5
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We can see that gives us all 7 diatonic chords here is the chords equivalents now combined.

    {(I=iii=vi),(ii=IV),(V7=vii%)}



    Next in our KEY of Cmajor we have a MINOR key built in by starting from the A minor

    A B C D E F G

    all the same chords with exception

    the E chord becomes E7 EG#BD to create the farthest away from home.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    • Like Like x 6
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • List
  4. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Part II CHORD Progressions.

    ----------------------------------------------

    We have seen how we have 2 functions with chords. ( Home, and away form home)
    our 7 chords represent home or away from home.

    Next the chord progressions come from the natural function of these chords

    first chord progression is V7 to I , away from home to home
    V to I (in KEY of C major) this means G7 to Cmaj ( and all their varieties) meaning G9 to Cmaj9, G9 to Cmaj7 etc.

    Next we have our relative minor (A minor)

    V to I

    E7 to Amin

    Next progression is to add subdominant ( slightly away from home to away from home to home)

    ii V I

    in KEY of Cmaj

    Dmin7,G7 ,Cmaj7 ( and all their varieties ex. Face,GBDFA,CEG ,

    and our relative minor

    Amin( ii V I ) is

    Bmin7flat5 ,E7, Amin7

    we have covered our V to I and our ii V I

    next is combining the maj ii V I and the relative minor ii V I with the minor coming first so

    Bmin7flat5 E7 Amin7 Dmin7 G7 Cmaj7

    (NOTE: you will commonly see the first 2 chords omitted also

    Amin7 DMin7 G7 Cmaj7)

    as you see when we take our

    Bmin7flat5 E7 Amin7 Dmin7 G7 Cmaj7

    we see 6 chords with only 1 from the key left IV chord, we simply add to the beginning to get all 7 chords in a progression here is that

    Fmaj7 ,Bmin7flat5 ,E7 ,Amin7 ,Dmin7 ,G7 ,Cmaj7


    we have covered every variety of chord progressions contained in 1 key.
    (only other thing as being able to omit from any place and take sections)

    1 important thing to note is that we have added an 8 th note to our main key in the G# contained within the E7

    this gives us a variety of new chords as substitutes.

    for example is the Dim7 substitute for G7.

    G7 is GBDF but if we take advantage of the G# ( flat 9 of G7)

    we can create a symmetrical chord
    Bdim7 (BDFG#)
    Ddmi7 (DFG#B)
    Fdim7 (FG#BD)
    G#dim7(G#BDF)

    this chord = 4 chords and all 4 of them can replace a G7 at any time


    E7 is EG#BD but if we take advantage of the F ( flat 9 of E7)

    we can create a symmetrical chord
    Bdim7 (BDFG#)
    Ddmi7 (DFG#B)
    Fdim7 (FG#BD)
    G#dim7(G#BDF)

    this chord = 4 chords and all 4 of them can replace a E7 at any time
    the maj ii V I and the Minor ii V I

    share the same Dim7 substitutions

    Bdim7 (BDFG#)
    Ddmi7 (DFG#B)
    Fdim7 (FG#BD)
    G#dim7(G#BDF)







    I can now demonstrate to you the validity of the chord chord equivalent chart ( everything is home or away)

    what we do is write out our notes of the key ( including the G#)

    C
    D
    E
    F
    G
    G#
    A
    B

    next we skip every other note to fill in the chords

    CEGA
    DFG#B
    EGAC
    FG#BD
    GACE
    G#BDF
    ACEG
    BDFG#


    next name our chords

    CEGA Amin7 or Cmaj6
    DFG#B Ddim7 Fdim7 G#dim7 Bdim7
    EGAC Amin7 or Cmaj6
    FG#BD Ddim7 Fdim7 G#dim7 Bdim7
    GACE Amin7 or Cmaj6
    G#BDF Ddim7 Fdim7 G#dim7 Bdim7
    ACEG Amin7 or Cmaj6
    BDFG# Ddim7 Fdim7 G#dim7 Bdim7


    what have we found?

    that the maj6 I and the relative minor Iminor are identical = I
    that the Dmin7 chord = V7 of maj V to I (G7) and = the E7 of minor ii V I

    AND

    that you have only 2 chords repeating I to V7 or V7 to I

    the G# can serve many things from Cmaj7#5 to G7flat9
    to B D F G# dim7 chords

    the E7 EG#BD to the substitutions of it B D F G# dim7 chords

    lastly we have found at any time

    we can go through every note of the full key including the G# so
    C,D,E.F,G,G#,A,B

    but make chord inversions that climb up and down the scale through V to I's

    Last lets take one more look at our Dim7 chords in the key

    B dim7 Ddim7 Fdim7 G#dim7

    all we have to do is flat the root to creat a dominant 7 chord for each one

    Bdim7=A#7
    Ddim7=C#7
    Fdim7=E7
    G#dim7=G7

    look at this we see our maj V and our relative minor V E7 and G7
    what about these other 2?

    well the C#7 is V of the KEY F# major
    the A#7 is the V of its relative minor D# minor

    this is our first substitution for C major KEY called the tritone substitute and it is built right into our Dim7 chords each creating their own dom7 chords.

    what this means is that anytime we have a V to I major or relative minor

    we have a NEW way to substitute.
    our first is G7= Bdim7,Ddim7,Fdim7,G#dim7, E7= Bdim7,Ddim7,Fdim7,G#dim7,
    our new second is

    G7= C#7
    E7= A#7

    anytime we see V to I we now have many ways to play the V( as the variety of substitutes)

    lets see this is action

    our chord chart says maj V to I

    normally G7 to Cmaj

    lets test our substitutes now

    Bdim7 Cmaj7, Ddim7,Cmaj7 Fdim7,Cmaj7,G#dim7,Cmaj7

    next

    our minor V to I

    E7 to Amin7

    Bdim7 Amin7, Ddim7,Amin7, Fdim7,Amin7,G#dim7,Amin7

    next our tritone substitute

    so start with major V to I

    G7 to Cmaj7

    C#7 ,Cmaj7

    minor V to I

    normally E7 to AMin7

    tritone sub

    A#7 to Amin7
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  5. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    The Altered Dominant chord.
    ------------------------------------

    We have seen that adding a G# note to make B dim7, D dim7, F dim7 and G# dim7 (subs for E7 and G7 V's of major and relative minor V to I)
    We have seen that the tritone substitute adds in the A#7 and C#7 ( of Maj V and relative minor V)

    where are we pulling these sharped notes from ? and what are all of them?

    if we take our major V chord G7 BUT name every possible substituted note possible we get

    G root B third D fifth F seventh A ninth

    next flat 5 is C#
    next sharp 5 is D#
    next flat 9 is G#
    next sharp nine is A#

    WOW look at this we have the exact extra notes we discussed earlier.
    lets do the same thing for our relative minor of the key's V chord

    E root G# third B fifth D seventh F# ninth

    next flat 5 is A#
    next sharp 5 is C
    next flat 9 is F
    next sharp 9 is G


    look at all our notes what do we see here?

    lets go a step further lets do this for all 12 keys

    this will be our format

    G B D F A G# A# C# D#

    now for all 12 keys ( the V7 with altered notes)

    G B D F A --------- G# A# C# D#
    G#CD#F#A# ----------- A B D E
    A C# E G B -------- A# C D# F
    A# D F G# C ----------- B C# E F#
    B D# F# A C# ---------- C D F G
    C E G A# D ---------- C# D# F# G#
    C# F G# B D# ------------ D E G A
    D F# A CE ------------- D# F G# A#
    D# G A# C# F ----------- E F# A B
    E G# B D F# -------- F G A# C
    F A C D# G --------- F# G# B C#
    F# A# E G# ----------- G A C D
    G B D F A ---------- G# A# C# D#

    what we can do now is take our 2 V's from our C major key and relative minor key ( of C maj and A minor)
    write out our notes of the key including the altered notes.

    C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C
    we see that just 1 key C major ( including relative minor)
    has all 12 notes ( in the context of V7 to I)

    when we begin to look at other keys we can see where their altered V7's ( major and relative minor)
    share commonalities with C major in order to make decisions about changing keys.
    we already went through all the possibilities for progressions in a single key , you now just extrapolate that when you decide to combine keys.
    everything as we have discussed related to the one key of C major and its relative minor A minor
    applies to all 12 keys the exact same way and those keys connect to other keys just like C major connects to other keys related to its altered dominant chords V to I
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • List
  6. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Symmetry

    we have covered everything to do with chords and chord progression from starting from a key and how all 12 notes relate to the V or I in maj or relative minor, and we see how that extrapolates out to include all 12 keys ( 24 with relative minor)

    but is there anyway to use symmetry to navigate this terrain we already covered?
    ( just like how the Dim7 chord is symmetry)
    yes there is a radically easy shortcut when dealing with V to I ma and relative minor

    lets begin with this again.

    G B D F A G# A# C# D#

    we can use symmetry here to create a G whole tone scale

    this gives us

    G A B C# D# F

    G is the root A is 9th B is 3rd C# is flat5 D# is sharp5 F is 7th

    NOW just like before with our Dim7 chords( B dim7, Ddmim7, Fdim7 G#dim7 all same notes)


    we can call this G wholetone scale a chord name

    GBD#FAC#

    G9#5#11


    G A B C# D# F
    A B C# D# F G
    B C# D# F G A
    C# D# F G A B
    D# F G A B C#
    F G A B C# D#

    each one of our notes in G wholetone scale creates a Dom9flat5sharp5 ( or Dom9#5#11)chord identical to each other!
    this means we have a new way to substitute our V to I

    we replace our V with V9#5#11

    once we do this we get 6 different dominant chords that are identical

    we start off with a progression of G7 to Cmaj7

    next we make our G7 into G9#5#11 ( GBD#FAC#)

    next we make this chart to see how it works

    G B D# F A C#
    B D# F A C# G
    D# F A C# G B
    F A C# G B D#
    A C# G B D# F
    C# G B D# F A

    these Dominant chords are equivalent and identical to each other

    they all represent G9#5#11 key of C major

    they all represent B9#5#11 key of E major

    they all represent D#9#5#11 key of G# major

    they all represent F9#5#11 key of A# major

    they all represent A9#5#11 key of D major

    they all represent C#9#5#11 key of F# major


    what this means is you now have a easy as hell way of seeing KEY relationships between all 12 keys ( 24 if relative minors also)

    if you take a 12 note chromatic scale

    C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C

    and skip every other note you get 2 whole tone scales

    C D E F# G# A#
    C# D# F G A B

    that is it
    every V7 dominant chord and all their matching ( major and relative minor V to I's)

    G9#5#11

    G A B C# D# F----------- G B D# F A C#

    and C9#5#11

    C D E F# G# A#------------ C E G# A# D F#

    there is all 12 notes containing every dominant chord ( keeping in mind each keys V to I maj and relative min)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • List
  7. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    290
    If anyone wants the History of Jazz if you love blues or jazz, this is one of the better historical books available. There are many but this one has pictures and traces it from before 1890 right through to almost the turn of the twentieth century.
    It's really not too taxing reading it one chapter at a time and taking it in.
    Authentic and real pictures of the actual people. Get the hardcopy if you can afford it, it is worth it.
    If you like it, then you will want to go out and hear some of the music of the people you read about.
    It will also help you work out which style of jazz you really love and want to play. Yes, there is much more than ONE style, contrary to the thread author's apparent misconceptions.
    Cheers
    https://www.amazon.com/Making-Jazz-James-Lincoln-Collier/dp/0385286686

    upload_2018-4-14_1-44-47.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  8. farao

    farao Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    283
    Just want to say thank you to MMJ for your great posts about music theory and not letting the rude people get to you. When I hear people saying that famous jazz musicians just play what they hear, they obviously do not know what they are talking about. Extremely few jazz greats has made it that far without obsessing over music theory for quite a while.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    • Winner x 2
    • Like x 1
    • Agree x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • Love it! x 1
    • List
  9. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    we want our use of theory to be a servant to our creativity.
    we want the knowledge to be there to serve a purpose of bringing out our creativity and endlessly freedom of expression.
    the music theory is a slave to our expression
    BUT............ if we are missing gaps in our theory understanding, then our freedom of expression has less to work with.
    I just wanted to say to anyone reading this , music theory is a servant to our creative expression ( when we have the knowledge of it)
    thank you my friend for your honest support!
    I know you have the knowledge in this thread but i hope it still inspires you and gives you ideas!
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  10. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Simple summary of Jazz chords and progressions

    we start with a single KEY ( and its relative minor)

    we have home I and away from home V7 dominant ( for major and relative minor)

    the relative minor introduces one more note the ( #5 of KEY)

    this introduction of a new note to our scale gives us symmetrical chord substitutions (4 dim7 chords = G7 or= E7)

    next our altered V7 dominant chord introduces the flat 5 #5 flat 9 #9 (related to dominant of each maj and relative minor)

    in conclusion we have V7 to I ( major and relative minor)

    and our KEY contains all 12 notes ( because of the altered V maj and altered V minor chords of the single KEY)

    NEXT

    to move beyond our one KEY ( of maj and relative minor)
    all we have to do is look at the relationship of our 12 notes to our single key, and based on our choice of what to express we can shift to any of the 12 keys.( based on the altered dominant of the V to I maj and relative minor of our initial key )

    this is everything available there is to chords , chord progressions, and substitutions .
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    • Like x 2
    • Disagree x 1
    • Interesting x 1
    • Useful x 1
    • Creative x 1
    • List
  11. Jazz-N-Stuff

    Jazz-N-Stuff Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    111
    Location:
    Germany
    Jazz is improvisation, its pushing the boundaries, its abt feeling combined with TALENT, u need to be a MASTER instrumentalist, u never follow any rules, u never play to a "grid" and u might never care what people think abt your music.
    Although many Jazzmusicians wanted to be loved and be appreciated, they started drugs and alcohol and destroyed their reallife and any relationship they had.
    Jazz is abt suffering.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  12. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    Easiest way to start playing Jazz

    section II




    Melody



    Earlier in the beginning of the thread we discussed that the easiest way to begin to play jazz ,was to break everything into 2 category.
    We then covered all the information in part I about Chords and chord progressions.

    A summary of section I chords

    is here.
    This information covers starting with the KEY of Cmajor ( and relative Minor A)
    how all 12 notes relate to these 2 center points.
    how we have home and away from home or tension and release.
    the 12 notes each have a relationship to our tonal center ranging form completely home to some distance away to fully away (tense)
    this covers every possibility for movement and emotion.
    we then cover by looking closely at the most tense alterations of the dominant chord and substitutes, we can see how other full KEYS relate based on shared notes.

    going into section II melody
    All of this information holds true with a few more considerations unique to melody and harmony ( stacked multiple melodies from other instruments )

    in Jazz the melody comes mostly from the 3rds and 7ths ( while the bass outlines the roots)
    this is in general.
    what this means if we take say a simple V7 to I GBDF to CEGB

    B and F goes to B and E

    it seems like a small movement but with the bass and drums establishing the rhythm section outlining the roots this really fills a lot in.

    Lets take our Dim7 substitute of Bdim7 ( as G7 V7 substitute)

    BDG#F to CEGB

    D and F to E and B

    we can swap around the dim7 because it is symmetrical to create many melodies

    B and G# to E and B

    we can pick the order of the notes and how they change for ex.


    D and F to E and B

    the melody can be F D F E B

    lets keep that and build on it get a good sound for it
    we can feel the power come from the F to D to F creates the mood , the F to E setting up for the B to land hard
    plat this a few times either have the B lower or above fell the difference.
    have the melody in couple different octaves play it fast then slow feel the V to I compare it directly to a GBDF, to CEGB chord change and go back to melody then back to the chord changes.

    actually that lovely just like that but can we add more?

    hell yeah!

    next we have "grace notes" AKA leading tones.

    these are on the "off beat" and they are half step away or scale tone from destination note to create impact and tension release .

    lets try it so we start off with our melody

    F D F E B

    lets zero in on here

    F D F E B

    we put a upper scale tone so F to G ( G is our grace note)

    F D F G E B

    F D F G E B

    now play and listen to that.

    now we make a triplet to that portion ( faster set of 3)

    F D F G E B

    Next lets take the ending note B and add 2 grace notes. first add C then below to A

    so B C A
    this gives us

    F D F G E B C A

    finally add a C again at the end


    F D F G E B C A C



    finally try this


    chord GBDF then melody
    F D F G E B C A C
    the chord CEGB


    now listen to it play around with it creat some swing! compare it to just playing the V to I chords GBDF CEGB
    dont let it intimidate you! play it slower, then faster make the notes last longer than others some shorter etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
    • Interesting Interesting x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • List
  13. Introninja

    Introninja Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    805
    Location:
    Location Location
    Hmm.....
    Well since you guys seem to not want to work things out, im afraid you have giving me no choice but to step inn, post not related to the thread will be removed and all those whom are off-topic will be removed from this thread, Permanently.

    @BaSsDuDe no doubt in mind that you know your shizzniz (Stuff lol), but why not make your own thread with your theories/techniques, escalating this thread only causes chaos, where the love? Even if someone was wrong, do we just stone them? or do collaborate and come up with solutions to dissolve the matter, or plain in simple let them fail (sometimes it works). I will ask if you can refrain from posting in this thread, I'll leave the rest up to you.

    @MMJ2017 I'll say keep it up, but please be mindful that not everyone will agree with your formulas/styles or even your way of teaching, but that should not deter you, nor cause you to engage into an unhealthy roundabout discussion.

    Everyone else let's be proactive at what we have here and teach/learn off each other, we can't say one person way is useless because they don't release music as they teach it, that's like saying a Personal Trainer has to be fit, to make you fit. That may help you choose visually but at that point your just judging a book by its cover, and we all know there's More than one way to skin a cat.
     
    • Love it! Love it! x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  14. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    290
    It's probably a good idea to stop google from finding this forum on random word searches.
    The site creators are excellent so I am confident they can alter the headers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Nasty Nasty x 1
    • List
  15. realitybytez

    realitybytez Platinum Record

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    239
     
  16. LuckySevens

    LuckySevens Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    163
    Location:
    3rd planet from the fireball...
    Ummm... you're wrong about that. Most early jazz musicians were self-taught and played by ear. Knew nothing of formal music theory. They played what they heard (in their creative minds)... but it helped that they were born musical geniuses.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Interesting Interesting x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  17. Kinghtsurfer

    Kinghtsurfer Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    501
    Thank you @MMJ2017 for this lovely post... Very informative and educative.

    Others who are being demeaning or arguing or putting forward their own theory, I dont get why we feel the need to split hairs about music theory so much... Use what suits you in your music making... Discard what doesnt suit you...

    If you have another theoretical paradigm, start another thread and we will be grateful to you for it...

    For those who laugh at or put down jazz, you guys need to wisen up... Music history is incomplete without its jazz chapter... And to watch jazz maestros perform live is nothing short of breath taking...

    There is a wealth of very useful and practical information here... And I am thankful for it and intend to use it in my own music..

    All of the above is said very respectfully...:)

    Cheers!
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  18. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    they were self taught and they were culturally taught by individuals and mentors ,old men grandfather types and father types.
    this is not true( in some sense) ,they were taught it word of mouth just like im teaching it hear in text on this forum, they would been taught by older musicians in their life( not theory in the sense of writing music symbols all the time, but music theory in the sense "the way that music works" they were taught the same thing this thread contains ,word of mouth"( we talking before 1920)
    jazz musicians from 1920 to 1940 many went o school and the ones that did not taught the word of mouth way.

    I am willing to demonstrate evidence for this comment i say fine sir.




    those 2 films cover jazz up to 1920's period.



    these 3 films cover jazz up to the 1930's period

    this film covers jazz in 1936 when every jazz musician ( majority) had formal education.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  19. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    290
    See the book at the top of this thread

    It's one of the HISTORY books with interviews of actual players dating back to the 20s.
    It starts before 1890.
    It is one of the HISTORY books in the Libraries taught in class as well with blindfold tests at:
    New England Conservatory, Berklee College, Juliard, Miami State, North Texas and NY School of Jazz.

    Do not believe me or anyone here might be smart when you can look in the book above "The Making of Jazz" that is in every major University in the World that teaches Jazz.
    It outranks anything anyone on this site can say or a video. History books tend to be credited by every authoritative institution in the world.

    They have interviews dating back to the 1920s with the actual musicians. Red Norvo and others, Jimmy Noone, Bix Biederbecke al of the 1920's read music. Jellyroll Morton did, Art Tatum didn't, Earl Fatha Hines did.so did the Dorsey brothers, The Pres, Hawkins and Gershwin.... so on and so forth... so many of them... There is a MIX
    You are nincorrect and correct but the History books, not youtube videos, fills in the gaps that are missing in most people's education.
    Cheers
     
  20. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    1,198
    We went through taking our simple V to I maj key C major

    making melody and using embellishments ( leading tones, AKA grace notes ( 3 words for same thing haha) to expand on it.

    We seen that if we begin with a 3rd or 7th lets take a note say F the 7th of (G7 our V)

    We can embellish it with grace notes so F becomes GFE

    We have a few tools up our sleeves like this in jazz when dealing with melody


    We have octave displacement which is instead of landing on our note we land on that note an octave higher or lower

    For instance if we in middle C range G then switch to higher ovatve right when we land on -FE
    ----------------------------------------------
    we also have ascending and descending the KEY as scale tones.


    Next we have the use of triads and arpeggios


    Lets take a super simple middle C range and do a ii V I in C major key (major ii VI)

    that gives us DFAC,GBDF,CEGB

    here is a simple way to express a melody with this using arpeggios and scale degrees. in a minimalist way in order to see it in action.





    start around middle C

    here is the melody

    DFACBAGFE---------(E rings out a while)

    what did we do?

    well, DFAC portion is ascending our ii arpeggio.
    Next BAGF is the 3rd 9th , root and 7th of our V,
    E is the long drawn out note our 3rd of Cmajor.

    See how those 2 methods sound? ( arpeggio mixed with scale tones of the key)

    lets extend that out further

    DFACDFEDCBAGFED blue is triplet feel

    now loop it and feel it out, alternate it with the chords DFAC,GBDF,CEGB

    here is another

    DFACDFACBAGFEDCBA

    what if we add in the grace notes and octave displacement also?


    upper D down to FABGABDC

    then repeat or continue octave higher

    DFABGABDCDFABGABDC

    you see what we are doing is using all the same information that we went through with chords but using it in individual lines and melody.

    the "on" beats have to be part of the chord tones.
    the "off" beats can be chord tones or can be grace notes of any type you want that make sense with what you already started making it sound like.

    the next thing we can do with melody is related to what we described before in chords when we added the G# to the key scale
    CDEFGG#ABC
    we can use this in melody but it has to be descending.
    next each ii or V or I chord has a particular grace note or set of them i will show you now

    C major chord gets the descending scale of
    CBAG#GFEDC

    (every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Dminor (ii chord) gets the C# note added so

    DC#CBAGFED

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    --------------------------------------------------------
    G7 (V chord) gets the F# note added so

    GF#FEDCBAG

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    ---------------------------

    this is how they each descend starting from the root.
    Next we do same thing but descending form the 3rd of the chord

    Cmajor from the 3rd

    EDCBAG#GFE

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Dminor from the 3rd

    FEDC#CBAGF

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    G7 from the 3rd

    BAGF#FEDCB

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    ---------------------------------------------


    Next we do the same exact thing from from the 5th of the chord

    C maj7 from the 5th

    GFEDCBAG#G

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dmin7 from the 5th

    AGFEDC#CBA

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    G7 from the 5th

    DCBAGF#FED

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    Finally if we descend from the roots only we have extra tones i will now show you for each chord type.
    I maj ( Cmaj7 in this case)

    CBAG#GFED#DC#C


    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    --------------------------------------------

    V7 (G7 in this case)

    GF#FEDCBA#AG#G

    every other note is chord tones so the "on" beat is chord tones the "off" beat is grace notes
    --------------------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  21. sir jack spratsky

    sir jack spratsky Kapellmeister

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    71
    again thnx to MMJ for a great thread......its so much easier without the useless interjections....specially when i am copying and pasting his text to my word document...cheers mate
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
Loading...
Similar Threads - Easiest start playing Forum Date
Easiest way for change ip (Mac computers) ? Internet for Musician Jul 24, 2018
Easiest way to fail playing "jazz" Education Apr 16, 2018
Easiest way to sidechain in SONAR DAW Apr 15, 2018
Easiest guitar tone (eq) matching ever how to make "that" sound Sep 21, 2017
Easiest Best Way to Clone your studio Computer?? What program do I need. PC Mar 1, 2016
Loading...