Lately I've been interested in learning how to layer multiple synths in order to create more 'unique' sounds.

Let's say track 1 is a nice short dry piano and track 2 is a sustain pad with some kind of detuned tail. Basically I can copy the same Midi clip to both tracks and adjust each gain. Then I can send both to a new bus and control overall volume and any extra FX.
So this works but I feel the process takes too long.

What's your method? Have you tried any 3rd party plugin such as Blue Cat's Patchwork?
Your advice is appreciated!

EDIT: I'm using Cakewalk. It has a nice feature called 'echo' that allows you to play live multiple synths. I'm open to try another DAW (such as FL for its great stock sampler)

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2022

you make the first channel of midi. you duplicate the entire track. it has all the same plugin settings. you switch one of the VSTi plugins to a different synth.

Patchwork is great but you do not want to use it for multiple Instrument destinations. Keep each synthesizer on it's own channel. Use things like Patchwork or KSHMR Chain for moving effects chains around. Waves StudioRack? whatever you want. Keep your midi sources and destinations separate. I think your current inquiry will end up actually slowing you down, or costing time and despair in the worst cases.

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2022

Patcher in FL Studio - no brainer. Can also do cool stuff like turning a monophonic synth like Model-72 into polyphonic (with multiple instances) by using a plugin like midiPolyphony.

 

Which DAW are you using?

 

Interesting Thread

I´m still in the beginning to layer.

But for me i found 2 very great tools: Patchworks and Kshmr Chain.
I really have 3 or 4 Synths in Patchwork. It can multi Mixer Output. So every Synth has its own Stereo Mixer Channel in DAW.
And then Kshrm Chain for effects.
I use Cubase but its cool with other Daws.

Here is a video for PW. But i use this for VST Insruments.:
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Blog/t...ns-easily-with-the-patchwork-macros-function/

Why?
Because you can set 1 knob for same parameter in multiple VSTs which are hosted in Patchwork or Kshmr.
When you want to cutoff filter or other parameter you can do this with 1 knob for all of your separate instruments.
For electronic genre its really cool

I often see in vdeos, that the artists when they are layering, using slightly different midi. Not the same midi for all synth tracks.

 

I'm on Cakewalk. Which btw, doesn't have a large user base actively uploading tutorials and stuff. I'm open to try out another DAW. Haven't decided which one.

 

fyi there is a full layering course on https://www.youtube.com/@FreshlySqueezedSamples/playlists in the second row 'Layering in Electronic Music:'

 

Why not create one MIDI track and two (or more) synth tracks and route the MIDI to them?

 

Interesting, I just downloaded it.
By notes it seems you cannot play in realtime because you need perfectly quantized chords, but it's something in anyway.

 

Ableton and Bitwig both make it easy to create racks with different sources of sound/VSTs in it, make them play unison, filter their note range or even frequency range. Addons like the chance-10 pack for Ableton make for interesting variations on one or more of these layers if you wish to ;)

 

there is no Patcher in Logic, so I'm using Voltage together with PSP Nitro modules (LFO, Envelopes etc. as on the image)
can see the Spire instances on the left, the remote modules bottom right can modify any params of any modules without cabling

 

Bitwig Studio only: by using Instrument Layer stock device.
Each layer can have its "note FX" chain before, and/or its audio FX chain after.

To be creative, you'll can add the created Instrument Layer into... Instrument Selector, then duplicate the Instrument Layer then tweak it a bit. Finally set "Round Robin" for Instrument Selector properties, you'll get natural variations! (useful for piano).

Probably other DAWs have similar.
Blue Cat Audio PatchWork (99 € = expensive) does the job, I guess (but I don't have it).

Otherwise, the most common solution: 1 common MIDI track, routed to multiple instrument tracks...

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2022

BC PatchWork: 99 euros/USD => expensive (IMHO).
Kshmr Chain: 29 euros/USD/£ => interesting...
TOTAL: 128

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2022

I call this "Nested Work". It's kind of comparable to Bouncing. It's a way to get burned later in your process where you are stuck redoing work, or unable to change parameters of each individual layer. If each synthesizer/sampler has it's own MIDI channel # and track, each synth layer can have it's own set of CC Automation for all parameters.

There's nothing *wrong* with either way, but I think you maintain more control by not doing "nested work". It's also a way to get into issues with OLD projects people often have trouble getting into anyway.

 

If you keep opening multiply synths! it can be CPU Hungry.[probably not today with better specs]!! Me i keep it simple MIDI outs is my way!or bounce wavs the old way & load in
multisampler.
I Still use this without any cpu usage or latency!

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2022

Lastest test I've done yesterday was 8x DUNE 3 instances (aka 8-layer), then tripled into an Instrument Selector (so 3 x 8-layer, but not played as the same time, but switched via "round robin"), the CPU never protest, no glitch no latency in live performance.

 

it's funny, but I have the exact opposite problem when working in Logic. I can create layers faster than I should. Then the real trick is getting them to blend in and out with one another to add movement. But it also involves a ton of deleting, resampling with effects, automation, or whatever else you want.

This is why Layering inside a "Nested Environment" sucks. You never know what your song is going to want you to change in it. In this case you do, because you are building a situation where you get stuck exactly with whatever you make on your first try, prior to any mixing even. It will all be mixed into one audio file if/when you bounce stems. My advice would be to just figure out how to make Summing Stacks/Groups faster. It's so much nicer anyway, and you can always unstack/ungroup later.

 

Last edited: Dec 22, 2022

cthuhulu ?

 

FL studio also has a "Layer" that goes as instrument, and patterns created on that can be assigned to "children" tracks.
I found that handy for seeing what i was doing, but i never properly learned patcher and that has more abilities.

 

? This way I could always change every single parameter in the synths. Why should this not work?

Well, if you need different MIDI values for the synth, yes, but you can still automate the hell out of each of them individually.

Please remember, OP's asking for the easiest way and one MIDI and several synth tracks is the easiest way (unless you're using Reaper and can insert several synths into the MIDI track) because as soon as you're changing anything in the MIDI track both synth will react accordingly in realtime.