Dynamic EQ, side chaining kick and bass through plugin help?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by Brendan, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. Brendan

    Brendan Noisemaker

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    So I'm working on a newer track and saw this (link here) --->
    . I noticed Lu Diaz sidechained his kick to the EQ and not the 808 like most producers tend to do ,as both the kick and 808s or subs live in the same neighborhood (frequency spectrum).

    I was wondering, how would I sidechain my kick to say Fabfilter pro Q3 within FL STUDIO 20? I know how to sidechain kick to bass with fruity limiter and have been doing this awhile but the pumping effect always kills my low end bass.

    I liked diaz's technique and would like to try it. Also could someone explain how exactly to create room for a kick while still keeping the integrity of the sub or an 808? Right now my sub is too quiet and the kick is dominating. Also, where is it best to use a soft clipper?

    These are questions that have always nagged me, and I'm trying to improve my productions so any help would be appreciated, thank you guys!
     
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  3. Zeyad eLmoghazy

    Zeyad eLmoghazy Producer

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    think of the 808 as an extension of the kick you need to find the perfect combination where the kick represent the initial short transient , the 808 is the body , you dont carve space they complete each other so for example dont choose a sub heavy kick with a sub heavy 808 they will never sound good , choose a snappy short kick and an 808 that has a lot of body , never sidechain an 808 to the kick , what you can sidechain is the 808 and bass , and think of 808s and bass as opposites , if the bass is sub heavy choose more distorted 808 and vice versa its all about sound selection your drums need to be clean before you even touch it with eq or compression , maybe side chain the mids of the bass to the 808 so if there is any small frequency clash it solves it but overall sound selection is the key
     
  4. 11Fletcher

    11Fletcher Kapellmeister

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    Hi, for 3rd party plugin with FL you have to set it up manually. So first you send your kick channel to your 808 ("sidechain to this track"), add your Fabfilter Pro Q3 on the 808 track (or whatever plugin you want to use that support sidechain - I'm not sure if they fix that with the 20 version, but it use to work only with VST3 plugin, maybe it still like that).

    In the Pro Q windows go to the plugin parameter (top left, the little wheel next to a plug icon) go to processing and at the bottom (in connections) you'll have different input option, choose the kick track in the "2 Stereo Side Chain" menu. From there, you can go back on the plugin main window.

    Now for the sidechain in ProQ 3, add the frequency you want to work with, right clic on the dot "make dynamic" and in the set up windows, above the gain knob, you'll see "auto", clic on it and it should be ok, after that you can set up your threshold and everything you need to set up.

    This sidechain technique work also great on vocal to make room on the lead instrument
     
  5. Brendan

    Brendan Noisemaker

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    Why do so many tend to sidechain kicks and 808's? I never looked at it from that perspective, that they're part of the same body but it makes sense. What would you recommend as a great source for quality kicks or 808's? My sound library is so packed with mediocre sounds mixed with fantastic crispy samples, perhaps I need to do some late "spring cleaning" for my DAW.
     
  6. Arabian_jesus

    Arabian_jesus Kapellmeister

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    I'm no expert when it comes to 808's and electronic kicks but check out Faw Sublab! Really nice VST for creating and sculpting your own kicks!
     
  7. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Yeah, SubLab ftw! Love that plugin.
    Btw just to say, for some of our younger members, why there sometimes seems to be a misunderstanding when the word 808 is mentioned:
    When the 808 came out, it just had kick, snare, hat etc, but was soon modified by circuit benders of the time so that the kick could have an extended release time and could be tuned.
    And the rest is history.
    But hence why some statements may be confusing!:
    Btw @Brendan that was exactly the video I meant to post on your other thread re. low end, but I'm sorry I didn't get around to it.
    Glad you found it though!
     
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  8. Zeyad eLmoghazy

    Zeyad eLmoghazy Producer

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    never knew about this , nice to know where the name actually came from thank you @Smoove Grooves
     
  9. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    So it's like when most younger people say 808 they most often mean a bass line, not the kick. Just something I've noticed.
    It confused me, having grown up in the era of the 808!
    And your comment said 808 meaning kick, and bass...uh, meaning bass! lol
    But your technique and advice is spot on! @Zeyad eLmoghazy
    Everything as I would have said, and it's been echoed on lots of useful tutorials.
    Generally, it really does start with choosing good samples to start from, that already go well together, and then often changing the attack of the 808 bass so the 808 kick is punchy. And shortening the release of the kick drum.
     
  10. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Erm, surely he's sidechaining the dynamic eq to when the kick hits?

    Again, you mean you are sidechain compressing the bass to when the kick hits. Not the other way around as you describe.
    Don't let all this affect your creativeness. It's easy to get bogged down in things that don't matter so much.
    And with this type of music, and with low end generally, it does take a lot of practice.
    Tbh, it's still one of the harder things for me, even after many decades.

    I'm thinking that one of the things that may help you is when you master your track you can try using a multiband comp and turn it off on the low end, so that your dynamics are left alone and more open.
    Obviously your mix has to be good prior to that.
    Create room for the kick? Well it actually sounds like your kick has enough room and your bass hasn't!
    But as Zeyad said, you can eq your bass with a dip where the fundamental of the kick is, and get more level out of your bass.
    Remember there are a lot of freqs below 40Hz and right down (which will show up in your eq but we can't hear and can't be reproduced on most systems) which build up and mess up a mix, and a low cut @ 20 or 30Hz will sort this out and give your whole mix more headroom. And your comps won't have so much to deal with!
    Regards soft-clipping I think it's most useful to just use it on the master mix, but some use it on various instruments, a bass group/bus or kicks and drums.
     
  11. Zeyad eLmoghazy

    Zeyad eLmoghazy Producer

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    the way I think about it is the 808 replaces the traditional bassline and the bass refers to just a sine wave , and at the same time the 808 is essentially just the kick without the initial transient . and they side chain the mid frequencies of this sine wave to the 808 because the sine wave transient doesnt matter anyway it just gives this feeling of depth , as you said the trick lies in proper sound selection and transient shaping , you need nothing but proper leveling and volume automation , fixing clashing frequencies is a pain in the ass never do it when you dont need to
     

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