Does growing your career slower put you at greater risk of your work being stolen?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Jake Jlinngall, Jan 29, 2021.

  1. droplet

    droplet Producer

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    Elton John stole "Yellowbrick Road" from Frank Baum!

     
  2. itisntreal

    itisntreal Producer

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    how do you guys think of sampling kicks i do it so now and then in the 80's and 90's it was mainly sampling stealing songs is a different story and lame I also sometimes use midi files to create ideas or get inspiration for a track i change the notes and i think of it more as a cheat sheet like the vengeance series they sampled a lot of kicks from ohter songs and you won't hear anyone complaining there
     
  3. droplet

    droplet Producer

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    not everybody can perform a song well,
    but not all songwriters are performers. steal a songwriter's song and you steal his bread.
     
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  4. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    You may even be talking about a case I'm still involved in. But I'll give the example anyway of how these things happen.

    I was in a band between '90 and '93. The guys had written a pop/rock anthem that became the last track of the second set, it had a whoah whoah whoah audience call & response breakdown before the big outro, and it really became our trademark.
    We got sponsored and got gear from Ampeg and Marshall and we got in the top 50 of the MTV Unknown Rock band tracks, or whatever it was called, with that track.
    AT THAT TIME there was a guy studying at Dartington College of Arts who I won't name here but you can find his name out because he is now married to Sophie Ellis-Bextor (hello, I hope you are better now. x) and he is the bass player of the band The Feeling...
    His net worth is now estimated at $20 million.
    Their track 'I Love It When You Call' is our track. Same chord progression, same tempo, same leading notes with the bass, same 8 beat piano vamp on outro as I did, different key. Okay, the top line was different. But it's exactly the same song and arrangement.
    I was the only one of us (until recently!*) that made it into the inner sanctum of the industry and had success, so I had the help offered to sort this out instantly out of court. They had a #1 after all...
    But the two writers, although they hear it is exactly the same, didn't reverse enginner reality as I did and realise that matey was local to us and had obviously been coming to our gigs.
    They also decided they wouldn't be able to afford to challenge it, but I'm still telling them that this is totally achieveable, and won't cost them anything! Because it is so blatant and we have all the proof in live videos and recordings.
    The song was public and known since about '88.
    They even did the recorded delivery for self-copyright and also put one in a bank vault.
    When I joined the band I wrote the keys part for it and gladly gave it. Yet the song was complete as it was. It's their song and I'm happy to do this often.
    So it's not within my remit to pursue it, although I have it all waiting for them...

    *Cut to the present day, 50% of the writing duo for the track, Scott McGowan, has now been playing guitar for The Bay City Rollers since about 2013 so he now has some better contacts although doesn't have the legal and licensing links I have.
    And in fact he pulled in our mate Stick (Nick Gornall) on bass a few years back when Alan died in 2018.
    The wiki page is wrong about the recent line-up, btw.

    It's a done deal. I just hope he acts on it.

    All I found amusing in the original post is just that there is no point in worrying about this sort of thing.
    And I've said it before in another thread, that it's always good to keep your cards close to your chest as it were.
    Protect the songs that you know are gems.
    Always keep stuff back and don't air all your demos publically, as everyone seems to want to do nowadays.
    You have to have a lot of unheard material in the vault if you are going to sign a 3 album, 10 year contract.

    After my co-writer and I turned down a 'development deal' (lol!) with Dennis Smith of Sawmills (when Muse were still in nappies and he hadn't found them!), we realised that the songs are still yours, but he owns those recorded versions of them.
    So when he touted Muse, the record company obviously don't want material already out there so they make a deal to purchase those recordings.
    Hence how Dennis became even more minted. But sometimes the record company may see this as an obstacle and get turned off by it and become uninterested.
    So there is much more to watch out for in how we can sometimes end up with things feeling a bit off-kilter.

    Bloody hell, is this a book I'm writing?! :unsure:
     
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  5. Stuck In The 80s

    Stuck In The 80s Kapellmeister

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    I can't help to think that all you've done by sharing your story is made the OP an even more paranoid android than how he started.
     
  6. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    We can't possibly control what happens once our songs are public, so there is no point in worrying about it. Worrying is based on hypothetical things, and it doesn't feel nice. So don't do it to yourself.
    If 'it' happens, then you will feel flattered and will have the evidence ready, and who I know in Harley St. can act on it with confidence and worry about the fees later.
    My example would be instantly settled out of court and hushed up.
    As all provable cases are, unless it does go to court.
    So why worry? :dunno:
     
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  7. Jake Jlinngall

    Jake Jlinngall Kapellmeister

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    See this is what I am afraid of. I have gotten small success and I know what I got is really good. Key word here is it is truly good epically for the times we live in. I imagine if post molane dropped "too young" or "white Iverson" and didn't pay for promo for that to go viral then EVERYONE would have stole that vibe and idea to do exactly what I am describing. How I know this? Well think of how many people want to sound like drake and post molane now? I heard that drake's producer stole kayne west's sound and changed it up a bit... that's why they have beef now and don't like each other. Because when you have the new sound on the block people want it. Everyone is looking for that new idea. Don't be naive fellas. Stars backed by labels don't worry about this because they are promoting everywhere on the internet. If they come up with a new sound they will get their credit. When what you have is good trust me the roaches and leaches sand pirates start to spawn in.

    No one talks about how slow but affordable growth exploits us and increases our chances for theft. Why is that?

    Hard to get ahead in a country where as soon as you find success a bigger giant can steal your idea as they have enough money to scale it and make it theirs. The internet makes this even worse as eyes are everywhere. Back in the day w/o internet you would have to find success physically; locally. You were restricted to watching out for people like this in your hometown only. Not every person like this in the entire world via the internet.

    Not even just music. Look how this generation operates in general. Look at how people copy EVERYTHING. "How do I sound like him?" How do I sound like her?" Sound like drake tutorial"

    The tutorials themselves are even copied amongst one of another! lol
    People trying to know what plugins your using, getting mad because you won't share your process or equipment and they can't copy...

    On IG all artist look similar, colored dreads, tattoos, dark mysterious photos, autotune on a sad emotional beat w/ a piano guitar they are clones of lil wayne and drake, and kayne. Bryson tiller, 6lack, drake, you name it all these artist sound very similar.

    In the bible when they mentioned the tree of life. If your sound is a tree and not a leaf of a tree that was already planted and your tree can branch off and create fruit and produce seeds clones like the people above I named. People will steal it. You know how much money you can make with a tree like that? So you must guard your tree/ plant. Think of how valuable weed is and how much people want to steal that plant. I'm using analogies here fellas.

    We live in a age where ALOT of people want to be famous but don't want to work to actually do it themselves. They just want to steal an idea and profit because it's easier. It's always been like this but the internet allows for people like this all over the world to spy on you and it makes them even more dangerous because of how envious social media makes everyone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  8. Stuck In The 80s

    Stuck In The 80s Kapellmeister

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  9. Jake Jlinngall

    Jake Jlinngall Kapellmeister

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    I rather him be honest with me.
     
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  10. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Same. When you see people cry/laugh/or dance their arses off in a club to your music, you realise that you have created something that must be generally good objectively.
    Another thing. When the Scissor Sisters had that track that got licensed for usage on a car advert (Can you Feel Me Coming Out,or something) our publisher said "make one like that".
    So we dropped the track into Logic and just proceeded to copy the BPM and the sections. Everything.
    And all this schmaltz got used as album filler for certain dance compilations in the '00s that went top 20.
    i did it to learn from the producer, but it was just like a production line and I didn't enjoy it. I was tracking up several songs worth of instrument takes a day. Throw enough shit at the wall and see if it sticks.

    Music is such a great medium and gift that people will always try and pimp it out without any care more than it being something to sell.
    Even if it means stealing or copying.
    It is what it is. And it always was.
    Your observations are true. Yet we shouldn't focus on it.
    So just accept it truly and be free.
    Please brother.
     
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  11. RMorgan

    RMorgan Rock Star

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    I can speak about myself.

    My work has been stolen many times, not as a musician because I mostly make music for fun nowadays, but as industrial designer.

    Every single one of them was patented or patent pending, but to be honest, protecting your work nowadays is useless unless you have the resources to pay extremely expensive legal fees to sue whoever may steal it, who most of the times, at least in my case, lives in another country, which makes legal fees even more prohibitive.

    End of the story, I stopped protecting my stuff.

    You can do whatever is in your reach to protect your art, but if someone big decides to steal it, they will, and there's nothing you can do about it except maybe publish your grief on the internet and try to make it go viral, even though, if the thief is big enough, you are the one who might end up getting sued in the end.

    So, my advice is, do not spend much energy worrying about it. Most of the times it will compromise creativity, and most importantly, for nothing.

    Just my two cents.
     
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  12. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Perfect.
     
  13. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    So, in regards the thread title...after all this preface..
    Although I still have to preface my conclusion first! :
    Deadlines, finance, legal/contractual obligations, expectations, genres to pigeon-hole music, stress, etc are not really part of the creative, artistic vibe.
    They are of industry.
    So when we just stay focused on our destination and follow our creativity and stay in that good vibe, everything will eventually come together.
    There should be no time frame imposed on creativity.
    If this did happen to be "growing slower" as per the thread title, and you were also constantly putting out unsigned tracks on SC or YT, there is a possibility that the potential of the music was wasted in a way. (Although as in the case of a local guy Cosmo Jarvis, this ended up working quite well!)
    Don't rush to the treadmill!

    Personally, I play my instrument every day without fail and work on a track. I have been imbued with it since 5 and I'm constantly attuned to the creative vibe. Lots of material builds up and it's all future ammunition.
    If we didn't get into it just because of the love of music (I can tell you did, Jake!), and never expecting anything more from it, and aren't sensitive enough to be affected by the issue in the thread title, then I doubt that one is really attuned to the beauty of music.
    More probably attuned to some other aspect based on a more yang ego and financial expectations.

    Ego is positive and we ascend with it. If we didn't have it we would do nothing. But some people are aligned differently.

    So I say, (probably because I'm both Taurus and Water Ox!) to just focus on your destination in the distance, see it, and put your head down and plod on. Nothing will stand in your way. Time frames and deadlines should be non-existent in this dimension.
    Then, when you are 'there' you will have all the product ready for when you are approached with a business proposition.

    And you can only have done this if you accept and then discern to ignore any negative thought patterns like in the thread title.
    Don't build it into your reality.
    Oh and lastly, it is not expensive to set up your own publishing business for your tracks.
    This may sometimes give you a better stance to negotiate when it happens.
    And as Björk said to Jo Whiley in an interview in the '90s, she writes for herself, not her followers. So it's a nice bonus that other people like it.
    This is how I've always been, and eventually it all works out in some way.
     
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  14. Jake Jlinngall

    Jake Jlinngall Kapellmeister

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    Amazing post. I am a Taurus as well. You are right I do this for the love of my music and when you do so much, like invest in your own gear, build your own room, mix and produce and you are your own one man army it's hard to get unlatched. But I guess my music really isn't mine at the end of the day, when I say this I am talking in the sense of influence. I can't really control where my ideas and what I write comes from. It's almost like a spirit guides me and uses me or finds me. It's very weird. Is it a spirit or is it my influences spewing out on paper. The moment we create or hear the arrangement that motivates us we just start to sing and write, and let it out.

    That moment/mesh. What is that? What gave us that?

    It's so special to me that I sometimes get protective over it. I guard it like it's mine but I guess all I can really do is share that with the world and hope for the best because it's not mine as I was just a messenger. or is it mine? The melody, the words chosen, where did they come from and who gave it to me? Why was I chosen?
     
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