singing to the choir there mate

 

This is an excellent question, and there are many ways I could answer it, but in the spirit of brevity (which is often alien to autistic me), I'll try to point out the not so obvious as well as the obvious.

The first obvious is lack of (quality) sleep. Musicianship is software that runs on hardware. Happy hardware = happy software (and most importantly: conversely). We need sleep, proper rest to function at 100%.

Now, also obviously, there are touring musicians of every generation: from late teens, to septuagenarian Rush and Springsteen, and all the way to octogenarian Rolling Stones, Sir Paul McCartney and Sir Ringo generation... which leads us to money, and comfort. It does help to have money, so you can travel on luxury touring bus instead of a van, private jet instead of commercial, and stay at the Four Seasons, or at least Marriott and Hilton rather than Motel 8 (or 6).

All these factors come into play..., obviously. But that's the tip of the iceberg.

What's less obvious, in my experience, is the toll on one's mental health. First, some of us, believe it or not, are introverts. Sure, it seems incongruous for us to go on stage in front of thousands, or tens of thousands, but that's just the 5 or 6 of us on stage, and the audience gives us, feeds us energy. But the other 16+ hours we spend awake take a toll on us - energetically. It's a social desert that we traverse - for months. Sure, there's our band-mates, but even if we like them and get along with them, living out the film Groundhog Day is not ideal in reality, for mental health. And that's assuming we like them and get along with them.

There's also the sexual and romantic factor. Not everyone in the band is young, single, handsome, and/or the lead singer. At a young age, it's less of an issue: opportunities are bountiful, especially in western countries. As you get older, and perhaps are no longer single, it becomes questionable, if not problematic, how you manage that intermittent, long distance/multiple time zone relationship. There is also another questionable matter, that is a fact of life, which I'll just label "legality." I'll just leave that there.

I mentioned time zones, with which also comes jet lag. Never mind international: just going back and forth between L.A. and NYC is a killer (eastward). Likewise with NYC and London, or Paris. I had to learn (took me a year but I did) how to manage eastward jet lag, and sleep on demand on the plane.

And to cycle back to sleep, just changing beds every 2-3 days takes a toll on your body (generally, but neck and back especially), and quality of sleep. In a word or two: you age faster.

The mental health issues arising from social isolation, the physical hardships of travel, and monetary pressures (on and off the road), often lead to self medication (alcohol, drugs, pills, sex), and breakdowns - physical (as has happened to many male and female artists and musicians), and mental of course (that list is even longer - iykyk).

And that's assuming 1) we like and get along with our band mates; 2) management (tour, label, and band) aren't psychos; and 3) we're getting paid well and on time (good luck with that).



Anyway, back to songwriting and "better songs...," in my experience, one can (and should) write on the road. One should write almost every day in fact (my average was 6 days a week, maybe just 5 if I was exhausted or had something else going on). "Writing" can be just four bars, chords or melody or both (I don't count drum beats as composition); it doesn't have to be a full song, or tune, or sonata. It's like yoga, like eating, drinking, breathing music: you should do it daily, give or take a day.

There's an old story about a tailor who is asked for a top notch rush job on a suit (or dress). He quotes a price, quadruple his usual. The client balks, asks how come the high price. The tailor replies: " I can do fast and cheap, or fast and high quality, but not fast, cheap and top quality at the same time. You have to choose."

The same principle applies to most things in life (I'll spare you the examples), but also to music. Certainly, there are exceptions: I've written a tune for my then girlfriend while the pasta water was boiling and she cooked the pasta - 20 minutes. She was impressed, and it was a high quality tune if I may say so myself (still is), but there was about 20 years of compositional skill behind it - and to be fair: she had the lyrics all written out for me, so I already had a structure to follow.

But good and great music often take longer to finalize, a different chord here, a different word or lyric there. Paul Simon said it took him about a month to write and complete a song - through multiple incarnations - and he's no slouch at songwriting, but not everyone has that luxury, and also: not everyone cares about their songs to the degree of detail that Paul Simon does.

In life, as in music, you have people happy with flipping burgers, cooking pasta, and then you have Michelin starred chefs that obsess over every detail. Beyond talent and taste, the latter requires time, energy, and effort. It's the same with music.


So I know most bands or artists would've (mostly) written better songs if they'd not been on the road - I'm sure every other Rolling Stone magazine interview has a band or songwriter mention they were pressed for time (listen to The Police's Zenyatta Mondatta and contrast that album with their other ones, for instance), and wished they could've had more time between tours, or in the studio, etc.

Talking about Zenyatta Mondatta, Sting said he got inspired from touring in India (March 1980) and wrote Driven to Tears, and perhaps also Spirits in the Material World, so it can happen - but this was an exceptional event (first by an English band in India, if memory serves), so there's that to take into account.


Ultimately, once you're on the road (I've been away from home some 300 days out of the year), you will understand it unequivocally. Especially as you cross the threshold of your mid-30s and mid-40s - it's not even a question.

 

Don't forget, no less other than JS Bach lived a long life as choir master/composer for his church.

To this day, it feeds a lot of musicians (and buys a lot of gear).

 

Only mentioned it because they famously gave up touring after 1966 to concentrate on writing and recording music that was never intended to be performed live.

 

Touring makes you a road-tested musician and able to play the songs you have written riff by riff in (your home) studio. Playing night after night for live audience stitches the band and you get to master the instrument. That's good, and recommendable.

It also makes you understand how wide of a job it actually is; carrying the equipment, sitting in a van all day everyday, loading up the stage and the van every night and doing the soundchecks, seeing only gas stations and venue backrooms of every city, making the same old tired jokes with the band year after year... instead of sitting at home alone in front of the computer.

It' s also expensive and brings you no money whatsoever, and mostly finances the homes and bank loans of the people running the venue as well as the organizer, promoter, marketer, van rental, the driver (if any), roadies (if any), the label (if any) etc. Having some tour shirts printed, you might be able to cover some costs, but that means investing to them before-hand and spending the time behind the selling booth all evening, unless paying for venue to sell them. You might boost your CD or Vinyl sales, if you have released any, by selling at the gigs; but thinking it will make the sales better anywhere else will not happen. Releasing physicals are mostly for collectors and die-hard cultists only, at least at the moment.

Yes, touring is absolutely a blast when you're at the age of 20 to 30 something, even to late 40's. At this age of 52 and having quit the substance use, it's damn annoying, feels pointless and is moneywise absolutely destructive.

I suggest staying at home and refining the goals of your take on "how you want to go forward on the musical 'career'", and come up with something really creative, that most of the musicians out there aren't already doing. Good song/songs are not enough anymore, you need the right connections up in the ladder and a theatric spectacle of a show to get people to even bother to appear at the venue. Touring will be also away from the money for promoting, of which without there's no point touring anyway, 10 people checking your band out at the pizzeria corner in Buenos Aires (unless you live in Argentina), will do nothing for you except the experiences to look back to.

Writing new songs and playing them first on tour is a good idea in one way, you get to practice them good before recording and leave the parts that don't work out, and all that can be heard on the recording and also make the recording smoother. So yes, on that side.
But the thing is, people coming to the show aren't interested in hearing the new songs, but the ones you've already released. The novelty of "I got to heard the first performance of the song" is a thing of the past, as someone will definitely record the gig and it's on youtube before you leave the venue.

Touring also has to be a life-style choice, for it is really wearing in the long run. The younger you start the better, so it is the only way of life you know. You must be in love with the thing or it will not carry. The thing is, maybe it's not about the money for the band, but for everyone else it is, and that will leave you exploited in every way possible.

And yes, maybe you quessed it, been there, done that and still doing occasionally.

 

Last edited: Jul 27, 2026 at 9:06 AM

like i say with all these comments sayign how great it is and every one shoudl go on tour but whose payign for it whose providign the PA whose settign it all up whose sortign out the venue whose doign ya sound whose gear are ya gonna be using whose doign the promotions whose doign this that and the other thing it all costs MONEY and time or is it just clap ya hands a PA drops out of the sky the mice under the stage turn into roadies and as if by magic one day madison square garden rings up out of the blue and says we want you to headlien a night were doign and were payign you half the door and were providing everythign you need for FREE

just no reality all this go on tour its great someones got to pay for it all and that person will be you or i suppose just clap ya hands and everythign will fall into place and all the stuff that costs money and real money will just be dimes on the dollar and all the stuff you need to do to get to the point of goign on tour will just magically fall into place just have a strong will and talent and everythign will fall into place and that tour will be a resoundign sucess and you will make bundles of cash and you wont end up fallign out with ya band lose 100s or even 1000s on a failed tour that was doomed before ya got started and play to 5 people a night and not have to drive for hours and pay for things liek hotels and petrol and prob end up payign the venue as well jsut to put ya night on as these htigns generally go so in end you make nothign end up with nothign just to go on a pointless tour that has pro ruined ya friendship with whoever else was unfortunate enough to be alogn for the tour and thats the reality of the "TOUR" not some magical moment where everythign falls into place money just lands at ya feet from thin air and got 20000 seater venues ringign you up and sayign come and play for us and we'll pay you half the door and your the headline act at our festival were hosting cheers

 

all said and done your prob better off investing in some gear makign a beat and doign that rather then the "TOUR"

 

Yeah I believe what he's saying, I looked up his band on Spotify and they have around 1,000 monthly listeners. With that small of a fan base it would be foolish to do much beyond playing shows near your home city.

It's the same as it's always been and always will be. Bands who know how to write, record and produce great albums, who understand how to write good hooks with accessible song structures, who sound and look professional can go on tour and make a living.

The rest should pursue music as a hobby unless they're actively working on doing everything it takes to become a professional musician. It's not like touring is going anywhere, if anything live music will become more valuable as AI takes over and people crave something genuine.

 

think ya missign the poitn of what hes sayign to be honest and from a lot of the comments on here they all seem to miss the point and the point is MONEY talks poverty walks and what hes sayign is ya got no chance doesnt matter how good ya songs are or how good ya production is no ones listenign no one cares no ones gonna go to ya gigs even if ya fuckign brilliant and every songs a number one genre definign tune no one cares no ones gonna go and listen no one gives a shit and all time its costign you money and time and effort and was it worth it was it fuck and thats the point people seem to be missign and try makign out that goign on tour and 0playing gigs is the door to sucess when it isnt and never will be or could be like i say no one givbes a FUCK about ya music ya band or ya work or ya songs no ones listenign ya just lost in a flooded over saturated market thats full to burstign with a load of people all doign same thign playign same music and all rest of it so why would anyone be bothered about your music or ya "tour" or ya gig when they got so much choice and vcan go and watch some dodgy cover band why go and see you and take a chnce whats point no one cares no ones listenign no ones bothered and ya ultimately wasting ya time with music and doign the live curcuit and whose payign for all these tours and gigs yep you are and chances are most venues want you to pay them for the gig its just a dead end lose lose game and will end up emptyign ya bank account and was it worth it was it fuck been better spending ya money on a synthesizer and some music gear then a bullshit tour

 

i dont think it does, except when you tour 24/7/365.

the opposite might be true: when you have played live last year, and you are going to play live again next year, you have a great motiviation - or even pressure - to compose some more songs, which otherwise you might not have had.

if you know what people like and they can react positive to the simplest things, you might also learn from playing live that you are obviously overthinking composition and arrangement.

that you need an eremite´s life and 20 years of yoga and lazing around to be creative is a lie.

personal problems, stress and pressure, requirements and also limited options actually help more.

 

"Do you think touring takes away from creating new songs or boosts it"

Depends on your mental health.

 

Going back to the OP.

We will never know, that's a hypothetical question that's impossible to answer unless you have some quantum reality parallel universe time machine.

Again everyone is different with different circumstances and live in different parts of the world, therefore impossible to answer.

As for all the financial, practical side, if you want a be a career musician, it's never been easy, and circumstances, bands, people, places, hurdles, situations, relationships, good luck and bad luck luck will come and go constantly. It's a constant state of flux, always has been and always will be, that's just the way of it.

Much as I love live work, I haven't been out there since 2019. However I do have a lot of friends and former band mates who are, both nationally and internationally.

It's a very challenging economic landscape at the moment. A lot of venue's are gone. The price of tickets, alcohol, travel and everything else is out of control. The audiences night out, which is the most important factor, is now a big deal to them. They have become very discerning. People will still shell out insane prices to go and see legacy acts or big names. They'll also encourage tribute bands, which I despise with a passion, by attending their gigs. I know a lot of people who have gone down that road as their main source of income. I also know some great players who have become sidemen. They've found a route to make a living. And they still do their own thing on the side. It obviously helps if you are a talented musician who can bring your own mojo to a situation, and are professional, amenable and willing to fit in with whatever the gig requires. There's always a way.

 

my advice is just buy a pro audio gear and set up a studio and work it from there theres no money in the live circuit anymore in fact theres no money in music really a man to listen to is the legendary trevor horn and what he says about the music industry and how to work im doign what he did and thats just hoard as much pro audio stuff as ya can even if it takes a few years and then ya can set it up and then ya in the recording studio business and what he did was he just hoarded loads of synths mixign desks and everythign he needed over time then when he was ready he made that video killed the radio star and rather than that hit goign to his head and lets go on tours and do all these great thigns as a band he just ploighed all his money into ztt studios and he then went about findign bands that might not have the exposure or worked the circuit he said if they had somethign we'd work it till they did have somethign by givign them studio time by the day and went kind of industrial with it and just put loads of unknowns into the studio and worked their recxords and he discovered quite a lot of big acts doign then pet shop biys frankie goes to hollywood sade grace jones all them big big bands from the 80s chances are they were discovered by trevor horn and he says that music now is a dead horse and if ya think ya gonna make it big dont delude yaself just work with what you got and try and do as much recording as you can and work it cause ya might think doign gigs and all rest is where ya gonna get found but ya not and he was sayign that more studio time ya get and it helps if ya got ya own gear then ya just work on ya records and keep workign it
but that said trevor was one of the big pioneers of midi and samplign and usign sequenced music and prob was one of the big guys for that when all the computers and sampling became a thign and id say to anyone if ya got money and ya dont need a lot buy gear and stop chasign a dream that is more of nightmare than a dream and use ya money wisely and buy studio gear

 

and in fact for all the guys commentign on this ya should seriously listen to what trevor horn says about music and whats possible and hes far as im concerned the master of production and how to make a hit record and how to work

 

luckily that there is always that single, godlike person who knows everything and only has to be worshipped and followed so you do not need to make own experience or have own ideas.

 

i like him me trevor horn im takign a leaf out of his book with the studio and hoardign the gear best advice i ever had that got 15 synthesizers 24 track mixer loads of outboard nowhere near as much as i need got midi interfacign and audio intertfacign and all kinds but still not sure ive got enough yet to push ahead with the idea but ya need whats the word yeah thats it guidance and a concept and a idea and how to get there and so far hoarding a load of gear is certainly payign off and almost there now then im in the computer based midi studio business got everythign i need almost to be of a commerical standard just a few more bits and bobs namely external EFX and signal routing but everythign else ive got as far as a computer midi based studio is concerned

 

I don't mean this as some sort of ultimate example (since there are plenty others), but would Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" exist without the existential anguish and alienation without their massive tours?

 

Just curious - I've never been to a tribute band show - why do you "despise (them) with a passion?" Care to elaborate?

 

I think that the problem with touring relies on the attitude the band/artist has. It's a powerful tool to see how people engage with your music, what makes them more interested and also strengthens connection with the audience. At the same time, it can boost conformism by creating tracks solely for the purpouse of being played live, which often result in "lacking" polish, just meaning being simpler, easier to play, more generic, and so on. Again, this depends entirely on the artists, but a very good example is EDM/Dubstep music. Most of the DJ's, producers and performers try to keep things very simple and focus primarily on delivering repetitive, "head-banging" tracks, rather than elaborated, intention-rich songs. This is specially notorious given the amount of "copypasta" tracks that, basically, are just the same drum kit with some unique twist here and there, but mostly formulaic.

Sullivan King comes to mind, his album "Thrones Of Blood" offered a very personal sound, with clear references and intentions, it was extremely refreshing to hear something with personality on this day and age, for the Dubstep scene in this case. However, after that, it came the infamous "Remixes" album, which is basically a half-baked stockpile of looped samples over the original stems, most of the producers involved didn't even try to put something new or even remix the track while keeping the original intent, most of them are rave anthems. And Sullivan following solo tracks and "projects" have been very conservative, focusing on his actual touring rather that pushing boundaries.

Is it bad? Not if you ask me, but it does affect the final quality of the products being delivered. And sadly, with Tik-Tok/Reels/Shorts/Whatever. The thing is going to get worse day by day, the highlight is more important than ever, something that music with thought tends to craft meticulously using tension, progression, contrast, tone. If anyone asks me what that means, i recommend "Hope" by NF and "Dogma Resistance" by RIOT