But bruh, rulers only reflect the current usage, at this point in time. In the future, 1" may mean Giant Pangolin, who knows :\

What I said was: "canonical, authoritative text." Because they are.

oic. Because we weren't talking about the current, accepted definition of the word, but what m00sishun will mean to giant pangolin in teh f00ture?

 

Ya know that u were (I think?) using a dictionary definition to tell some other dude what he meant, bra. So, take a chill pill cool story bro etcs.

Sounds liek ur having difficulty (not tall enough?) to get on that lamb "rollercoaster". I'll give ya a hint: it ends up w/ ya becoming close friends w/ vegetable side order, possibly mash potato, maybe some nice sparkling wine to accompany? :D

 

Check this out:

I finished putting this together about an hour ago on Ableton (so because I don't play the violin nor bass nor piano I have no right to compose this? How dare I? Y'all WILDIN'!):

 

Would it surprise you to learn that you're [once again] mistaken? Here.


@black.afrika.zulu.x It's a trip/It's got a funky beat/And I can bug out to it

 

@Lambchop I think you completely missed the point my liquidy friend was tryn to make, bro. Cool story, tho! >____>

 

I've already said my mind in the op, and I stand by it. But I'll leave you all with this, just something I found amusing online.

"I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I haven't made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

 

^
Totally agree, that's why I use loops exclusively.
Not talkin' 2/4/8/16 bar loops here, that's for kids. Mine are mature & complex, I sample entire albums.
"It's not the notes you play, it's the notes you don't play."--Miles Davis
I took that to heart

 

Last edited: Nov 24, 2017

Did I cheat though? Is this not a legitimate composition? Instead of writing notes I draw them on a sequencer.

 

.

 

Who cares? What does that even mean? I mean, if you don't plan to monetize your stuff/clear samples, what difference does it make what some guy from the internet thinks? And if you do [have to clear samples], then again it's just a question of money (most of the time).

@Pinkman, it's pretty girthy.

 

You are excused np. First of all i am not trying to patronize anyone neither force my opinion. So take your time to excuse me too, but the bull$$ is just in your mind dude and i find your reaction to be usually somewhat crude to be honest. I never said you ARE a gigging/live musician, i only implied that you can be one if you want to, unless of course physical handicaps make this impossible. Where's the crap in some innocent motivation please?
Nobody serious enough, asked a keyboard player to play impossible number of parts with 2 hands. Layered tracks have a myriad ways to be re-produced live, hence the hundreds of electronic acts playing live around the globe. If we were to follow your pov at what is cheating, all of these electronic acts are cheaters both in the studio and live ? Like everyone from Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream and JMJ downright to Daft Punk and Skrillex etc?

In the late 90s i played synths in a quite successful indie pop/rock band (in my country). The band at the time consisted of 7 musicians, including 2 keyboard/synth players. The songs' production though was dense (especially the newer ones), even with so many people on stage, not all the song parts could be played live. So i had made some backing tracks that i would trigger via an MPC 3000 (the drummer was playing on a click track in 2/3 of the set). My other giggin' gear was a Korg MS-20, Oberheim Matrix1000, Roland JD-800 & JP-8000 all midi chained to the Mpc too. The way i had those tracks laid out in looping segments on the mpc pads, i could trigger all those bits and pieces realtime by hand. So if we wanted to improvise a whole part or repeat it # times, it was possible, albeit being under a strict click track. Now i'm not a genuine keyboard player, i 'm self taught. I know my musical theory ok, i studied gtr for years starting at a tender age and took drumming courses later on among other things. The band already had a highly skilled pianist anyway who played the main key parts. My role was to recreate the tricky electronic bits live, also add some leads and pads here and there, a bunch of arps and some SFX.
Bottom line? Nobody ever accused me of cheating. In fact when we get together with some of the guys we reminisce with joy and a mutual respect. I would do it all again any-fkn-time.
Let me remind you, in the 70s, many narrow minded musicians accused keyboardists of cheating because they used an arpeggiator. Like, really man? Then delay pedals are cheating too and so is a fkn car since you cannot run 100 miles/hr.
As a musician and producer i will use any resources i have at hand to reach any given goal, be it studio work or live. There is no cheating in using technology to your benefit. It's what it's there for anyway. And its not what makes or breaks a project. I believe people with real talent and determination will find a way to get heard. At least most of the times.
Thnx for listening.

 

Maybe you need to go back and read the original question. I am honest enough to admit I don't have the skills to play without technological support. You have also described yourself as "not a genuine keyboard player" and rely on technology to get the job done. Which is great. I see bands with more laptops than instruments and I don't enjoy the music any less, but that makes me wonder if stripped of the programming could they put on an acoustic set and still dazzle? Everybody here with a few exceptions in is self defence mode justifying their compositions using loops as every bit as valid as the playing skills of a virtuoso cellist.

 

I think i answered that using tech/comps etc to your musical advantage isn't cheating. In short do you recall Milli Vanilli ? THAT is cheating.

Because everybody carries a strong amount of "ego", especially when behind anonymity. Have you ever heard a symphonic masterpiece by one of those loopmeisters? Obviously not because they lack crucial knowledge like wtf is a flugelhorn and what is its pitch range, how is it used inside a brass section, how is it used in classical or in jazz etc etc. Nobody can make complex classical arrangements with melodic loops or Kontakt libraries without having basic understanding of how the various instruments sampled in those loops, are being played, arranged, mic'd, recorded, mixed and produced in the real world. Junkie Xl though, does know how to do it. Is he a cheater ? And so does HZ and so on. I hate HZ, everything he makes sounds derivative to me, but i cannot but bow to his sum of knowledge and exceptional chameleon talent at being both a classical composer/director and an electronic musician/producer at the same time.
I find that it takes much more effort and time to write and mix/produce an orchestral piece with comp and samples, than write the parts on paper and give 'em to an orchestra to play them. It certainly costs less though , but as i mentioned few ppl have the musical background and knowledge to accomplish such a task.
So my final answer here is: If i made a track with loops but people loved it, my role as an artist for the most part is fulfilled. If everyone but my stoned neighbor hated it, i need to get better. There are virtuoso cellists and virtuoso beatboxers. Virtuoso trombonists and virtuoso samplists.
And not every cellist is a virtuoso. And about 3/4 of the classical players-musicians are just interpreters not real musicians as they can't improvise 3 fkn notes in a row, unless someone writes it for them on paper. Not to mention the absence of groove sense in most of them as well. So why compare a cocky newb (a significant part of this forum) to a virtuoso cellist rather than a cocky newb cellist.
True story: Some days ago i have this "dubstepper/trap" dude in the studio asking me for help with mix/production. But first he wanted to hear my work. So i play him some of my house and hiphop and he goes "meh, that's easy listening". He didn't take notice not one bit of the production or the mixing values, sound quality etc. So i play him a track i did while testing how MS20 would sound in the context of dubstep. The whole track is less than 2 mins and its basically a basic drums/bass loop manipulated in Effectrix and me "squealing" a duophonic mix of noise and square osc on the Korg MS20. And he goes "that's the shit man" I mixed his track in 6 hrs (with MS20 in it lol), got 200, he liked it,left, end of story.
By all means this not an example of less is more or keeping it simple. It is the example of him, a pussy who thinks he is a tiger and me "coning" him to mistake me for a lion and pay his dues.
Why bother wasting your time with what the pussies think of themselves and their "creations". Bypass, move forward, be happier.
Sorry for the long post, thanks for listening
Cheers
EDIT: I will leave you with 2 bands many called cheaters for years. Time and time again they set the standards of crossover electronica and indie dance/rock. They proved to be the lions and the cheesy "Eye of the tiger" accusers were in fact the pussies. Nuff said :

 

Last edited: Nov 25, 2017

I think i answered that using tech/comps etc to your musical advantage isn't cheating.

I have Novation Launchpad on my ipad. Anybody can press buttons without knowing what they are for and because tempos and keys are synced it sounds like a performance by an accomplished player. How can this be viewed as a legitimate personal form of expression and not seen by any definition other than cheatIng?

Apart from that, you're story was cool.

 

I do not believe that means can justify any end. But for this purpose, what matters is not the sync, but the content those pads play. Random button hitting never made any "symphony", unless all the content in those trigger pads is closely related musically. What this performance you describe should consist of to be successful is: carefully produced and crafted loops,one shots and maybe small backing tracks, pitch and tempo metadata programming/tagging, some inspiration and arguably some cool finger drumming. All this in my book is hard work and needs training and time devoted and is an art unto itself, no cheating whatsoever.
Random button mashing never produced a symphony. And i never heard of a professional performer who made a career based on sample collections or ready made sampled song building blocks. Correct me if you know otherwise. I always felt ignorance is bliss but only for the ignorant. The rest around such a performer will probably wonder wtf is that fool doing there. As the song says, even if i accept that you can fool some people sometimes, you can't fool all the people all the times.
And just for fun you pick your imaginary guy who doesn't know what he presses but everything comes out ok in sync and pitch and let's assume the parts don't sound disconnected (which would be more of a scifi movie, but for the time i accept it).
And i pick this guy, as my button masher:

Now who do you think would have the crowd with him ?

 

So is this creativity?

 

because?

 

That is what we call "a dj performance". The creativity part, lies with the people who created those sounds if we have to give credit where it belongs. Just like in the older days a good dj would spin other people's music, trying to remix as much as he could live to make a difference. Today they do the same with other people's loops and stem tracks via a pad controller and perhaps some Traktor , Serato, Virtual DJ etc. You can expect them to be as creative as a dj can be really. It is entertainment after all.
Nobody in their own mind would call that ipad performance music making or creation. Not even remotely, unless they are completely ignorant to what music making consists of in the first place. So why bother really ? It seems to me that it concerns you deeply, seeing peeps with a "lesser" skillset getting a shot at musicians' glory. Because really that's what it is all about really. And i mean i'm with you alright. But i don't let these "signs of the times" affect my peace of mind.
Toying with an ipad can become creative up to a point, but it will always be limited. I can foresee a future where an ipad can lead someone totally outside musical circles to become a "proper" musician. And that in my book is a good thing. Imho we are going through a transitional period, it was almost the same when midi first arrived (i was an active musician by then and all the way into that sht). The dust will settle down sooner or later, the crooked will go home the talented will take their place in people's hearts as it always has been. You can't beat human nature.
Cheers man

 

Super cool, I didn't know that could be done. Thanks!