Do you consider "making music facilitated by any kind of computer program" cheating?

Discussion in 'Music' started by foster911, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    A musician is anyone making melodies. Those making noise we call 'em drummers :bleh::rofl:

    Logic implies, if you can think smart then you are smart. So rest assured you are not cheating. You only think you are cheating because you can actually learn to play better but you aren't pushing yourself enough to do so. And it's the same for all of us i guess. I never met an artist that was 100% satisfied of his/her skills. It's always a "sub-skill" we know or feel the need to get better at, but it always ends up in the "to do" future list... It is important to overcome the ever-remaining-all-time-classic artistic tendency for procrastination. The "let's roll another blunt" mentality etc. Practice first blunt after lol.

    You aren't. Last time i checked trolls belong to the Orc race, at least according to J.R.R. Tolkien.
    I mean WTF does this mean ?
    :deep_facepalm: :trolls::wtf:
    God help me man, your sentences are encrypted messages preparing for the next troll invasion. JB should come out from the grave and bust yo ass lol.
     
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  2. tooloud

    tooloud Guest

    Logic implies, if you can think smart then you are smart. So rest assured you are not cheating. You only think you are cheating because you can actually learn to play better but you aren't pushing yourself enough to do so.

    Excuse my frankness, but bullshit. You seem determined to force definitions onto my admissions while I accept them for what they are. I cannot play a piano piece that took four heavily quantised overdubs and if I can't play it, then I prefer to lay claim to being the very thing I describe myself as.... a producer. I am not a performer. So don't tell me I'm something I'm not when I know that my best playing days were over 30 years ago and even then, being self taught I was not very good. But I can fake it with the aid of a mouse. I move notes into places where my now arthritic fingers could never touch. I have some understanding of music, but I am honest when I say, my equipment helps me cheat and give the impression I am better than my capabilities.
     
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  3. xoso

    xoso Kapellmeister

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    Personally I hear people talk smack. I can make a song from just my computer that sounds completely real in everywhere and mix and mastered and ready for vocal recording in hours when a whole band would take months to get that point. Some people only think in their role as a musician in what they play. Some of us look at the big picture and know that sometimes there is better ways to write and sometimes what is written digitally just comes out better than analog recording of an instrument but when i write guitar in kontakt I don't have to record the same riff 40 times when I can just move a few notes around and change velocities.

    But in the end I'm about the end product. It's like back in the day people saying "I code in notepad" and all their shit sucked. To each their own, but I have thousands of songs I've written every insturment for. I could never play my drums, if i could I'd be on magazines lol. Point is I can make a ready to record and sell product within a day I can pull out a whole song a whole world out of my brain in the matter of hours and have a viable product. There is a point it's a waste of time. Sure I'll record the guitar for real sometimes, but sometimes it just sounds better from a kontakt library shit happens.

    Had a bass player talk shit to me. I asked him how many songs he has. He told me he has a band. I asked him how many song they have recorded. Answer? ZERO, NONE, NOTHING. So he can talk shit, say it's cheating, its not real whatever. I have thousands of songs and only maybe .5% can figure anything isn't real so they can suck it. lol

    For example. This guitar was recorded once, jammed once, it took me 5 hours to make 1 recording of a real guitar into this whole song. This would take a real band with a recording studio and practice weeks if not months...

     
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  4. xoso

    xoso Kapellmeister

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    Also if you're a drummer and think anyone wants to set up your recording when ezdrummer sounds better than your kit then... Catch up with the times. A real producer is gonna layer the shit in there anyway if their reputable at all. In all honesty i Don't think most musicians understand how a modern studio works or how the back end of music works, what they think happens what 1980's style recording which if people are still doing are just stealing your money...
     
  5. beatmagnus

    beatmagnus Guest

    Haha, I wouldn't totally crap on live drums or band recordings but I totally get where you're coming from, and I know everything you mentioned about samps in production is true. Not going to lie though I really dig your production chops on that track:)
     
  6. Maizelman

    Maizelman Rock Star

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    An ableton trainer once came up with the theory, that the arranging process in electronic music could be seen as an equivalent of performing in acoustic music. And all the things one does up front, like learning how to use the DAW, the plugins, and designing sounds would be equivalent to practising an instrument in the acoustic realm. I found this way of thinking pretty straightforward.
     
  7. black.afrika.zulu.x

    black.afrika.zulu.x Platinum Record

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    DAWs are for composing.
     
  8. Maizelman

    Maizelman Rock Star

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    Yes :dunno:
    How does your sentence relate to anything?
     
  9. Lambchop

    Lambchop Banned

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    Get a power soak, or make one.
    [​IMG]
    I'm gonna guess that one's not really good for [continuous] 100W, but 15W, sure. You don't get the cone/reactive load distortion, but better than nothing. You can even add a post-tranny line [DI] out.
    Yeah. He did mention something about an 8-string going as low as a bass, not unusual to see 200W+ SS or even SVTs small clubs. Or might pan between amps/bi-amp, or... But yeah, a 50W head's usually plenty for stage volume alone.
     
  10. black.afrika.zulu.x

    black.afrika.zulu.x Platinum Record

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    Mozart didn't have to play a clarinet, bassoon, violin and oboe to make music for these instruments. SIMILARLY, you don't need to play an instrument to compose music. Beethoven used pen and paper. I use Ableton.
     
  11. Lambchop

    Lambchop Banned

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    Unlike coal & pork bellies, music is not a commodity. It's not all the same shit, so moar != better. I'd rather watch a band fumble through one interesting [unrecorded] tune than have to cringe through 1,000 on Shitcloud.
    @black.afrika.zulu.x, Mozart & Beethoven both played / composed at the keyboard; were able to do this because they played keyboards. Even after one of them was practically deaf, he *still* composed at the piano.
    Strange but true :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  12. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    hello fine sir! how have you been lately?

    What i did with those amps is install power scaling control so i can set the saturation of the power tubes where ever i want then have a powerscaling knob which is a volume control the sound stays the same with that way, i also can control how hard the phase inverter s are being hit,
    so sometimes, i want super transparent sound so i turn the scaling to the full 120watts but lower levels and have a nice glassy tone.
    other times hit the phase inverters hard and saturate the 6l6gc but have the powerscaling set at 5watts or so.
    that setting gives a rich three dimensional sound and really pushed the transformers.

    http://www.londonpower.com/power-scaling

    after years of testing these are the speakers i went with also they sound amazing

    [​IMG]
    here is an image of the inside one of my cabinets i built.
    [​IMG]
    this gives twice as much cubic feet of air per speaker than a typical 4x12 even though its only a 2x12, this results in the most amazing bloom in the 80hz to 120hz region of the tone.
    I ordered the wood from the Russian Baltic sea (shipping was ridiculous to new york) but the way the wood effects the tone is godly!
    [​IMG]
    here is the front ( before putting the custom grill part on,)
    I left a lip in the front so i can build a custom isolation chamber with microphone and make it an ISO box as well)
    [​IMG]
    here you can see the front LIP , where i can build the detachable ISO sound proofed front with microphone inside to have independant volume control over the speaker cabinets themselves.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    there are "filler" pedals on that board, at the time waiting for the mail to come in.with my new pedals
    if you look you can see one power chord to power the entire pedalboard (there are 18v and 9v nodes of the custom made power supply {GigRIg}https://shopusa.thegigrig.com/power/
    and then one input and one output (it has stereo outputs though)
    I only setup half the rig in this tiny kitchen hahaha
    I have the Analogman King of tone clone pedal top right(right after input volume pedal), the Klon Centaur clone on loop 1
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  13. Maizelman

    Maizelman Rock Star

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    Sure, they both did not have to play all the instruments. I think both were mostly piano players. But they had to know and think a lot about the performance of the players of the instruments for who they wrote the music. That could maybe be seen today as kind of equivalent to knowing what your synths and FX will sound like (before drawing in the piano roll and before turning a knob in your synth) in Ableton (or other DAWs).
     
  14. black.afrika.zulu.x

    black.afrika.zulu.x Platinum Record

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    Stop FETISHIZING musical instruments. I play Ableton. :)
     
  15. Lambchop

    Lambchop Banned

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    Do you own or rent your giant moving truck?
    BTW, cab resonance in a closed cab is basically just air volume/wall (plywood) resonance, nothing to do with the # of speakers.
    With open-backs, it gets more involved, but still, basically, like tuning an organ pipe.
     
  16. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    this part I haven't found the best solution for yet lol, i just know im ready for the big stages lol
    im working on another rig with smaller amps also (same pedalbaord though)

    Lambchop{BTW, cab resonance in a closed cab is basically just air volume/wall (plywood) resonance, nothing to do with the # of speakers.}

    true, but the amount of cubic air each speaker has to do with the lower frequency response as well as the "boxiness" of the tone (how three dimensional it is)
    so I have the powerscaling on the amps end to have independant volume control without affecting tone and the cabinets im making a detachable isolation sound proofed front with microphones inside to have independent volume control at the speaker level of the rig without effecting the tone also.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  17. Lambchop

    Lambchop Banned

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    It's not about fetishizing, it's more about the tool dictating the product, or "when all you got's a hammer, everything etc., etc."
    DUHs make looping really fun/easy -- I do some asinine shit in Session View too, mash together totally disparate clips & try to have it all make sense to me. I mouse around, clicking snippets, 5 to 10 going at any given time, good idiot fun. No more or less valid than the 9th, but you gotta admit I'm unlikely to arrive at the 9th with that methodology (if something like the 9th is what I want, that is -- a goal (destination) has to be set before we can judge which way of getting there is better).
    I hope that was unclear enough :D
     
  18. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    as long as that is "enough" for YOU.
    i would do that myself if it was "enough" but for me
    it has to be more challenging, if i make it too easy my creativity won't come out. I have to be under pressure for my muse to show up lol
    I still think it is important to use a daw to build your foundation of a song, then what i do is erase it and re-create it with live performance combined with improvisation, (under strict guidelines of a result as good as a polished daw tinkering.)
     
  19. famouslut

    famouslut Audiosexual

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    Difficult to know how to judge "standards" (do you mean merit?) in art, bit pointless even tryn to define it. Guess it misses the point of art, too. Is quiet music or loud music better? Red music or purple? Popular or unpopular? Etcs.

    XD I just know that there's an 85-yr-old dude out there who can play symphonies using his sphincter. I just don't dare search for it on YouTube!

    *sigh* it seems a ruler is a pretty good authority to refer to when measuring things. Albeit not in cm, in ur example =) But ya said that "dictionaries are canon / authority". Dictionaries just reflect current usage, record language at a point in time; nothing more.
     
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  20. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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