yes, good point. those differences matter!!

that's a good point too. but what if they're more kinda like a feeling, than something audible? do you think that's possible? or is it all placebo?

 

Here you are focused on controls and no listener can know any difference.
It might be a lot harder to achieve the same result if the taper of a modeled knob or control is different from the hardware one knows, but if it can do the job, no listener would ever know.
To be picky, I don't know of any hardware control that is a mouse anyway, so while the knob on the screen may accurately match the know on hardware, the real-time use is obviously different.
Even for interactions between analog-modeled components (or digital-modeled, for that matter), dynamic and time variable interactions, while certain brands might do a better job, it is not the 'brand" that matters, but the "job".

Again, if one brand got the taper exactly right, and another was a bit off, the end user would still never know, and long as the user compensated for that. So, while ease of use and GUI experience matters a lot for users, listeners can never know.

Every plugin must be judged according to its own merits, and NOT by the brand name on it.
Even if it uses synth edit.
If it is good it is good. If it sucks , it sucks.
Yes brand names can help avoid the worst, but it will never tell you which is best.

 

Last edited: Feb 20, 2024

still my tatoo says, "if it ain't Steinberg, it ain Sh*t" wish the tatoo artist hadn't sneezed while needling the i in shit, though..

 

You clearly have never programmed anything at all. Zero. Please don't waste my time.

 

But not to the listener...

I would say the listener will not hear them. The user will not hear them. But if they are not modeled, and they affect the outcome, AND the user expects them to achieve his goal, then the goal may not be reached and the end-listener might not like the song for some for some reason they they themselves can not explain. But ..the user who expected the non-linear effect(s) should catch it before the end-listener.
It might seem that lack of including a non-linear aspect is no problem, because the user's ear should guide adjustments, except that some are in play over time and would require an impossible constant adjusting by the user.

When it comes to modeling ...

Spoiler

The heating-up and cooling-down of capacitors, resistors, inductors, diodes, etc during each microsecond of time throughout a song is not something even top gamers can simulate in real-time.
The shielding of the metal plate on the channel-strip ... the position in the console ... the static from the styrofoam coffee cup on the table ... the inductive reactance of the iron in the blood of the drummer sitting in the tilt-back...
The poorly soldered joint on the ground lug for the left channel must be simulated... just a little off the back-side that was missed because the poor fellow found out his wife cheated on him ... just that much.. YES! That's it!

Who is measuring the model ..of which model ... in what environment? What position on the earth?
Can we reproduce the gravitational field of the Earth relative to the sun and moon according to the same at the moment Led Zeppelin recorded "Whole Lotta Love"?
The radioactive decay of the elements beneath A&R Studios in 1969?
The levels of THC in Eddie's and Jimmy's brains? Oh...wait. Well, I guess that doesn't matter, but i'd like to know anyway.
If it affects anything it must be modeled.

 

To the audio fanatics in this forum? Yes, it apparently matters.
To the average listener? No. They will not even know who or what those brands are, let alone care.

If you have to depend on a certain brand of plugins to make quality music, then what's the point of acquiring skills, experience and education?
Is your talent and creativity responsible for the music you make or are the plugins responsible?
Brands don't matter much. There are quality alternatives to every plugin.

I would much rather hear a mix by someone that used Analog Obsession or Waves plugins professionally than someone who is struggling to use UAD or Acustica Audio plugins.

 

The "brand" of the developer can be indicative of who did the programming. A small developer will only be one coder, going all the way up in number to someone like Arturia.

The programmers work product is what you are using. If that person cannot do equations, or has some fundamental misunderstanding, or any other problem; it will be reflected in their work.

What the plugin says on it's GUI and "brand name" are immaterial. However, it is an indication of who wrote the code for that one particular entire plugin, or it's various components. You guys have absolutely no way of keeping track of what DSP programmer/s develop the plugin or program. Therefore, the brand is associated with their development process, quality control, and every aspect of the product.

Why is anyone on this forum bringing up the Filter (or whatever other) sections of Serum2 being coded by Dave Gamble? Did they need him to create the code for the portions he is working on? No, but he was selected to do the work because of his brand DMG and the quality stuff being put out. The quality of the plugins released under his "brand" is only known to many of these developers' customers by the "brand name". So in developer community, certain programmers may actually be known for their skillset under their own real name. But someone outside of that group of programmers, will not know any of their names. So the brand is used as a gauge for expectations.

Maybe you remember record labels. There were certain labels that were "buy on sight" because of their consistent products. Sometimes you would find a great release on an otherwise boring label. Or one that didn't cater to some specific genre. But even without listening, you could have some expectations of your favorite label making releases you will probably like.

Do you think these programmers have vastly differing levels of skill? Or is programming square hole, square peg... Is an R2R release the same to you as a VR release? Why not? Maybe you can understand that...

 

Last edited: Feb 20, 2024

Plugins and coding. They all use ones and zeros to paint the picture that the coder hopes to express, and each have various degrees of expertise. Masters of the art will each have a different creative take on the same...let's say, compressor. They might each sound slightly different, look differently and draw more or less recources. Pick the one which satisfies your personal need.

Lucian Freud x 3. Which is the best?

1 The photograph by Cecil Beaton
2 The self portrait
3 The study by Francis Beacon

 

very true. good argument

Agreed, with very few exceptions

 

interesting

 

Agreed.
even though is just a name, id expect different characteristics from the plugin, depending on the brand.
eg: I expect more heavy-cpu plugins from acustica, arturia, ssl-native while Tal, voxengo, older waves stuff i expect to be lower cpu

yess! a label could be a great way to get to know new artists

 

great analogy. a new picture on the same subject.

so i take you'd say it does make a difference sonically speaking?

 

I felt that I intonated so in my last post . As nothing is made the same way, logically there will be differences.

 

It is important how a certain brand broke into the market and developed its reputation. It might be through constantly pushed, generously funded, and/or skilled advertising, an incidental great success on only one or two products, or it might be based on quality, reliability, and innovation. We should always discern between the two.
Choosing a familiar brand can reduce decision fatigue and offer a perceived guarantee of quality or consistency. Strong brands build emotional connections and align with specific values or aspirations. Positive brand experiences further foster trust and loyalty, so they become a kind of habit.
Brands often embody a set of values, promises, and experiences. Consumers may develop strong emotional connections with certain brands. So, with time, we become biased in judging them.
Brands help consumers distinguish between competing products or services, making purchasing decisions easier. Thus, they indulge our laziness.
Established brands can create significant barriers to entry for new competitors, making it challenging for newcomers to gain a foothold in the market. Consumers may be more willing to try new offerings from a trusted brand they already know and love. In this way, we become their accomplices by not paying attention or having suspicion toward non-branded products.
Strong brands can leverage their reputation and equity to expand into new product categories or markets more easily. Thus, we can more easily swallow the low quality of some new products from a well-known brand.

 

very wise words
our ear and emotions may fool us
that could be addressed by doing a blind test
problem is that doing blind tests is not easy, and it might be time consuming

 

I think to understand the subject, one must understand the history.

The VST was predated, in fact would not exist without the precursor, "V"

V was a plug-in - literally it plugged into the serial port of early computers. it produced a 5th whenever a 3rd was present, hence the name V, which is the Romanian Letter for 5. It was useless for music production however it proved handy to have a 5th whenever golfing so it did enjoy some success, however not with its intended audience.

A rebooted and rebranded 2nd version was produced "VS" - this was supposed to produce legal arguments for mail order lawyers, but it turned out it plagiarized a lot of old legal documents and was prone to stealing ones assets in the middle of the night, just like a real lawyer.

With funding running low, an Angel investor appeared in the form of the German village Stein Berg on Der Rhine, a picturesque village of wine makers and cheese sniffers, who enjoyed a good polka on a saturday afternoon. They wanted software that could produce an OompPaugh Band from a single Accordion and Trumpet.

With their past history, a boat anchor dragging them down, the firm of Cheezy Software & Noodles, the maker of both "V" and "VS" decided to change their operating name to "Steinberg Music and Carpet", later the Carpet was dropped, unfortunately hiding a beautiful old wood floor.

Steinberg was unable to produce the sofware as envisioned by its financiers, the accordion proved to be a difficult instrument to work with and was acccidentally ran over by a truck delivering additional bytes to the developers. Left with only a Trumpet and a dwindling supply of Peruvian Coding Powder, they used the Trumpet and in honor of the instrument that saved the company, they named the product "VST" the T of course stands for Trumpet.

Thus was borne the VST, which went on to fame, fortune, and several itereations such as vst2, vst3 and VST Deluxe SuperDuper.

originally sourced from Sound On Sound, October 1981 issue

 

Last edited: Feb 20, 2024

looks legit

 

thank god for my back issues of Sound On Sound. I've got it all the way back to 1933, the basement is pretty crammed at this point..

 

Of course the brand of the plugins matter. I do only listen to music that is made with top price plugins. I disgust music that is made with cheap plugs. Sounds flat, boring, lifeless. Let alone music made with "freebies". That drives me close to suicide.

 

if it doesn't have a Michelin Star, why bother??