DMP Stealing from Customers?

Discussion in 'Education' started by reziduchamp, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    I signed up for the Sub Club at DanceMusicProduction for a month and my membership ends on 7th October. I let them know that I wanted to watch a Tutorial on Advanced Dynamics and the second part got released today.

    Because I criticised their previous Genre tutorial (specifically the Progressive House one that bears no resemblance to the genre) they banned me from posting on the forum. :rofl:

    I still had access to the Sub Club today at about 14:00 and it seems that shortly before uploading Advanced Dynamics they blocked my access. It wasn't there at 14:00 when I checked. Talk about petty. No warnings, no justification, just blocked.

    Does anyone know where I stand here? Is this DMP stealing from Customers? I've bought a few tutorials from them and they are always banging on about people 'stealing' their tutorials by sharing them.

    The Sub Club offered a month's access to all previous tutorials and future releases for £15 a month. I paid in advance on 7th September. That seems like a contract to me and a breach of contract by blocking my access.

    Also, does anybody have access and is willing to share the second part with me? I only joined to watch this.
     
  2.  
  3. Dancemusicproduction

    Dancemusicproduction Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd like to take the opportunity to put this into its perspective;

    1. While we do always try to refrain from editing our forum posts, you continued to drive a thread off topic and your final post was edited to keep the thread on topic. Every one of your previous negative criticisms remains on the board unedited. We understand that our tutorials and courses are not for everyone and there are many alternatives to choose from. You do, however, fail to mention that we reconsidered and changed our subscription pricing structure based on your comments and request. I can post a link to this from our forum?

    2. We have never made any indications or announcements of any plans to upload Advanced Dynamics today or even next week. The next course is on listening skills and that isn't set to go live until the 4th or 5th. Advanced Dynamics will be a week or so after that so your subscription would have expired by that time.

    3. You are not banned from the forum. You still have the ability to post and reply. I checked and confirmed this earlier, and we also replied to your email attempting to resolve any problems you may be experiencing.

    4. The system suspended your account because of prohibited activity; a rapid succession of courses with the use of a download manager. This is against our terms and conditions that you agreed to when signing up. You received and read our email stating all this before you made this post but to reiterate them again for you:

    You may not either directly or through the use of any device, software, internet site, web-based service, or other means copy, download, stream capture, reproduce, duplicate, archive, distribute, upload, publish, modify, translate, broadcast, perform, display, sell, transmit or retransmit the Content unless expressly permitted by DANCE MUSIC PRODUCTION in writing.

    This is a standard condition for a number of educational streaming sites. So, if I may answer your question; it's really the other way around. You were caught in breach of our terms and you are continuing to attempt to steal our content.

    5. I don’t believe you can request Warez on this forum. That's on the sister site.

    Due to our current schedule, we're unable to actively monitoring this topic for any questions or replies, but if anyone has any comments or criticisms, please feel free to contact us directly at [email protected] and we'll do our best to reply as soon as possible.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  4. Willum

    Willum Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2011
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    310
    Lol, busted.
     
  5. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    1. Your response is off topic

    2. Quote from your mailshot titled 'Subscription Services & Advanced Dynamics Pre-orders':

    "During August, we released the first parts of our Advanced Dynamics and Modular Synthesis courses.

    Advanced Dynamics covers all aspects of how and where to use dynamics processors, including how to listen closely to hear the changes in compression.

    Modular Synthesis is a complete introduction and walkthrough of the Eurorack system, covering everything from where to start and onto how to build, and use the system. The second part of both will be released during September."

    Friday is the last working day of September.

    3.
    4. As stated in my email response to you, which I received very soon AFTER posting on here "Do you think maybe you should let people know this whilst they are signing up, or on the introductory pages or something, instead of hiding it somewhere that I can't even find? Where is this exactly?

    Also, if you make suggestions like "For those who want to jump on for a single month and watch all the tutorials in that time, its £25", it gives the impression that there is no restriction on personal use.

    In regard to your comments about owning tutorials, is this an elaborate plot to get people to download tutorials and then hit them with hidden terms and conditions and a large bill? Those terms are clearly legal speak. They are not aimed at anybody who just signs up and I cannot even understand them. I remind you that you claim to have deleted my comments on the grounds that they were sending you to sleep, but you send me this to read as though this is something that people read every day for fun.

    Without any proper forewarning, either before or after signing up to the Sub Club, this is a breach of contract by denial of service that I have paid for. Would you like to restore the service that I have paid for?"

    I have since located these terms and conditions. They are 3994 words long. If you do intend for people to be aware in advance that they cannot download to their own computer for personal use (incidentally, in order to watch any content on your computer the data must be downloaded to your computer, so its a bizarre legal argument to make), maybe make that clearly known instead of hiding it within 3994 words.

    5. I wouldn't call it warez if I have paid to watch it already.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  6. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    Get your popcorn... :rofl:
     
  7. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    The image I posted didn't attach. It states "you are currently restricted from posting content"
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  8. Iggy

    Iggy Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    827
    Likes Received:
    279
    I could see the problem with all this if we were talking "Mix With The Masters" or "Alan Parsons' ASSR" or something along those lines, but c'mon. "DanceMusicProduction"?!? Open up u-he Diva, pick an arp patch, a shitty distorted EDM lead patch, a shitty distorted bass patch and a patch marked "House Chords". I don't have u-he Diva, but it's gotta have a "House Chords" patch, right? I think it's illegal to sell synth VIs these days without one. Now, hold down the "D0" key on each one of those and play the resulting MIDI tracks into your DAW. Next, pick a shitty trap B&D loop. Make sure this whole thing goes on for about 17 minutes. Record the results to a two-track stereo file -- whoa, not so fast, champ! Make sure it's as loud as humanly possible! If you don't know how loud this actually is, check your DAW's output meters. Does it appear to be moving up and down at all? Are the clip lights dark? Not loud enough! Turn it up and try again! Now, you're finally ready to post the results on YouTube. There. I just saved you £25.

    And something that just occurred to me ... how does young DanceMusicProduction up there even know you're the same guy on this forum that's also using (and having issue with) their service? Because they seemed to have no problem pulling up the specific details of your account. Are you using the same handle for both? Did you list this forum in your official "DanceMusicProduction" master account profile? Did they just randomly follow you here? Is DanceMusicProduction Googling mentions of their esteemed company name every five minutes and came across your post? Why did they create an AudioSex account just to publicly talk to you about something that seems to be more of a private matter? This thread is raising more questions than answers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  9. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    Oh, and the official website has a flyer saying "available on subscription now, or to buy on 1/10/18". So either this is more deception or it has already been released. I've screenshotted it in case it comes down.
     
  10. Dancemusicproduction

    Dancemusicproduction Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    We haven't billed you and we have no plans to so I'm not sure where the elaborate plot is beyond attempting to protect our intellectual property. To cover all eventualities terms and conditions tend to be extensive, including schedules being subject to change (advanced dynamics is delayed - if you had purchased the tutorial for download, you would have been informed of this) and streaming only content licenses. This license sits almost at the very top of our conditions stating:

    Your License.

    DANCE MUSIC PRODUCTION grant you a non-exclusive limited license to use the DANCE MUSIC PRODUCTION Services, including accessing and viewing the Content on a streaming-only basis through the Video Player, for personal, non-commercial purposes as set forth in these Terms.


    You are required to tick a checkbox confirming you have read and agree to these conditions before your payment can be processed. It's clear that you are attempting to bait an argument on this forum. We edited your post on our forum for the same reason.

    As for why we are finding ourselves here; a small number of our customers are here, the handle is almost exactly the same on our forum, and in the last email communication, he requested us to visit this forum to view his reply. As I have mentioned, we are particularly busy (trying to finish advanced dynamics after the tutor suffered a family bereavement) so if you wish to continue what has rightly been suggested as a private grievance, we suggest you email us directly as we are unable to monitor this post for replies.
     
  11. Iggy

    Iggy Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    827
    Likes Received:
    279
    He asked you here? Well, shit, that answered all my questions. Sorry, @reziduchamp, you're on your own.
     
  12. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    That line is hidden 388 words into a 3994 word legal document that is not really meant for Lawyers to read, never mind Joe Public.

    Lets put this into perspective. If you bought some software, didn't read the terms and conditions and then found out in the small print that it will only work if you remain online throughout the duration of your music session and then the next time you went online {possibly after your Internet connection randomly failed} you found out that it had been disabled according to those hidden t&c's, it would be a similar question to that which I have already asked.

    This is the only place that you have hidden those terms. If you then restrict access based on these terms, with no forewarning, no after warning, or even a final warning stating what will happen if it continues, then I consider that to be theft. I was asking on this forum if that is the case. The question still stands. Is that theft? And if the Company hides these terms in this manner, is it ethical to remove service on these grounds? I haven't read all 3994 words, but I can't see any consequence of failing to comply with the t&c's and it hasn't been quoted here. If there is no stated consequence then that is a definite no, restricting my access is theft.

    Also, as I touched on, it is impossible to watch anything online without "copying and downloading" the data. That makes a total nonsense of the legal terms. Furthermore, you cannot possibly watch a tutorial without "the use of any device, software, internet site or web-based service". These are all necessary for the streaming of content and you do not permit the use of any of these.. I'm sure if I go through the whole of this T&C's this will not be the end of the self-ridicule.

    (Incidentally, they make the argument that the automated system removed me. I highly doubt that. I was browsing, skipping through tutorials at midnight and 14 hours later I still had access. That is not an automated system removal, or if it is, its the slowest robot since the 1970's)

    As for your argument that Advanced Dynamics has not been released, I already covered this. You advertised that it has. So is this an intended theft from other people by getting them to sign up to buy something that isn't available already, and according to you, might not even be available in the next month? {You have stated that it isn't even finished yet and the tutor is away ill. Alex stated that she has "finally watched all of the Advanced Dynamics course..." It would need to be finished if that statement were true. So which one is true? Hmmm...}

    Oh, and still no mention of restoring my access to see the Advanced Dynamic course, that is still falsely advertised as being "available on subscription now"; or is it not available? I still can't work out which is the actual lie because I still don't have access? As stated in the first post, it was clearly a petty termination of my account.

    You stated on your forum that you edited my post because it was "sending you to sleep". Now you are saying that you edited it because it was baiting an argument.

    If you are going to keep contradicting yourself as a company, you should probably steer clear of forums.
     
  13. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    Wouldn't surprise me. They have actually commented several times on posts on the sister site, so its highly likely that they do follow this forum. Its unlikely that they randomly followed me here, but as they hinted, its likely that, whether true or not, they will claim that one of their "small number of customers" who use this site alerted them to it only minutes after it was posted.

    I don't think its a private matter if they are restricting access to a site that they are selling access to, with no forewarning. They still haven't restored access and it looks like they have no intention of doing so. I would say that is very much a public interest matter. Don't you want to know about how you might get tricked out of your money for not complying with hidden terms on the sites that you pay to access?
     
  14. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    "he requested us to visit this forum to view his reply."

    Again, very deceptive. Their first post is stamped 6:36pm. They responded to me via email at 19:04, so half an hour later. As you can see I was busy posting a response to that on here at 7:07pm. Instead of repeating myself I emailed them at 19:07 stating "See reply on Audiosex..." Also, they brought themselves onto here to talk about it.

    Incidentally, this is their response:

    {We try our best to make it very clear that by using our site you are agreeing to our terms and conditions. This is why you are forced to agree to them by checking the checkbox and are offered the opportunity to read them before the website can progress to the next page to process a payment.

    For £15 (then £25) you are indeed free to watch all the tutorials in that time. We do not, however, state that you can download them, otherwise we would supply download links for every tutorial and we would refrain from selling them in the shop. You are, of course, free to skip through every tutorial as fast as you wish, however, skipping through multiple tutorials in a short time period sets a red flag with the system (particularly as you had viewed them all previously, and many had no quizzes at the end). It was this combined with the use of downloading our streaming content that resulted in the system suspending your account.

    This is not a breach of contract on our part, its a breach on yours. You agreed to abide by our terms and conditions when subscribing by ticking the appropriate box. A link is clearly displayed to the terms of use and it is ultimately your responsibility to ensure you understand all our terms and conditions before proceeding to join. If you do not understand them, then you should ask someone who does or alternatively, refrain from subscribing.

    I can look into the forum error for you. I know you were issued a warning for taking the thread off-topic a second time but this should not restrict posting. I’ll check into this again for you and see if I can source the error.}

    Again, no warnings given, no notifications either on the site or via email.

    Also, "we try our best to make it clear"? SERIOUSLY? We hid that within 3994 words of legal jargon and THAT is our best effort? It isn't even clear in the end, because it is impossible to watch the tutorials and there is no stated consequence to doing so.
     
  15. vkris

    vkris Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    20
    I quote DMP:
    "skipping through multiple tutorials in a short time period sets a red flag with the system"

    Of course he was skipping too much ...
    These videos are terribly boring and nothing on screen is happening for 10 minutes with irritating slow speech.
    For such a thing, there was no need to make video tutorials ... it would be better if DMP made audio books with a bit more faster speech.
     
  16. Diogenes

    Diogenes Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    34
    “There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about.”
     
  17. Sam Mathew

    Sam Mathew Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    24
    Well in all honesty, bitching aside, Rick is one of those guys who has deep knowledge about what he's saying! Secondly, I pirated one of their tuts and it's so good that I "deleted" it and now i'm saving up to get those Fundamental bundle during black-friday sale or sometime close!! And as far as I have seen, making good tuts takes time man and Rick ALSO answers questions on the forum himself!! So running such a big site takes effort!!

    Instead of bitching about it, try to talk it out with him!! That's all I can say!! Hope you get your shit sorted out man!!
    Off topic, but got to appreciate his efforts man!!
     
  18. WoodHouseTheProducer

    WoodHouseTheProducer Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Florida
    tenor.gif
     
  19. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    I totally agree with that and I've said it many times, and I still mostly stand by that. But I also stand by the other comments that I have made, that some of these tutorials could be cut in half. One comment I made was that I didn't want to watch somebody hitting save for half an hour - which spans across two videos in the Dimensional Mixing Tutorial. I'm not joking here either, have you ever sat watching paint dry? Its probably a lot more interesting. Its half an hour of saving files and moving blocks around. Their reply was "I think you might be confused here, DMP isn’t an entertainment company. We’re not here to entertain you, we’re here to educate you." But how can you educate somebody if you sent them to sleep? This should be valuable feedback and something they should fix by simply shortening the videos (piss easy), but instead they get all snappy and tell me how much positive feedback they've had. Could you sit and watch somebody hitting save and moving blocks around on a page for half an hour??? Oh, and PAY for the experience?

    Oh, and bear in mind that you are not permitted to fast forward through the videos online or you risk getting 'automatically' booted by the system. I've also given them feedback asking for a scroll function on the videos to skip backwards (and forwards). So downloading it so that I can skip though the ramblings not only makes sense but it doesn't make any sense in the grand scheme of things to sit through paint drying.

    Bear in mind that I've bought a few of their tutorials and joined the Sub Club, so I've paid for this education. If it wasn't for this and the sister site I would never have known about the tutorials and never bought them. I actually joined their forum in 2010 and they were trying to sell me stuff back then when I asked for advice. What I saw in the videos made me lose interest for a few years, because it was dire. Once I saw the Sound Design Tutorial it was so good that I bought it, and then bought others since.

    But as I've said since, this attitude makes me question everything they are teaching. People were asking how to sound like certain genres and what typical fx are used; how do typical genres get their sounds in essence. They didn't want to teach that or how to fit into genres because we're supposed to be unique and make music 'from the soul', which is a nonsense when they are selling 'genre' tutorials - especially when they sound nothing like the genre they are supposed to fit into.

    If you take Rick's knowledge of what he knows, what he teaches and what he actually produces, you have to wonder where the disconnect lies. If he knows how to get the sound of Progressive House and he makes a tutorial on that subject, then why does it sound nothing like the genre? If he can't do it then there is a very simple solution and that is to copy other people's works. He professes to know how to get certain synth sounds and he generally gets somewhere near those sounds. So just copy the sounds and fx from the genre. Its pretty simple really. Grab 10 tracks, copy a synth from each, change the key and you have an original track that has emulated the genre and people get to understand how the genre works. Instead we are told to make our own original sound. But you can't do that until you understand a lot of the basics. This makes me think that the Company is absorbing people into a never-ending education and it makes me question everything they have taught me.

    As far as being original goes, once we have been taught how the genre sounds and how to get that sound, its easy to create our own sound off the back of it. Once you see how easy it is the mystery goes away and you just take that to another level on your own accord. These are the bits of knowledge that people have wanted to know for years.
     
  20. reziduchamp

    reziduchamp Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    17
    Great spot. It is also followed by the line "particularly as you had viewed them all previously".

    So if you watch a tutorial more than once then you get red flagged. They tell you in the tutorials to watch the videos again and again until it sinks in. So apparently I've been getting red flagged for watching what I have paid to watch and doing what they tell me to do.
     
  21. WoodHouseTheProducer

    WoodHouseTheProducer Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Florida
    That sounds like the most bass ackwards system for delivering instructional video a business has ever used. I will now know to avoid this company in future endeavours, sucks that you lost money and time due to this
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Stealing Customers Forum Date
DICK HEAD stealing Software May 14, 2018
Above & Beyond - Satellite & Stealing Time [ Synthesia Tutorial + Free Piano Sheet] Software Reviews and Tutorials Aug 7, 2016
Stealing isn't stealing Lounge Feb 28, 2016
Stop stealing and support hard working developers Lounge Sep 25, 2011
(sknoteaudio.com) Marconi1 - Quinto email to customers inside Software News Dec 24, 2017
Loading...