http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7FUo_XaJs4

 

Haha the thing that makes me laugh is that now you can buy digital turntables (You know, with Mp3 etc...) that almost do everything by itself. Can't remember the name of that shit...

So the first douchbag that can buy one or two of them can find a job. So the "Old school DJs", the ones who work with their hands and worked hard, get their job stolen by the douchbags. (I read a lot of story about it on forums)

That is pretty funny, pretty sad too because that new generation don't even know anything about music culture and don't know what "quality" means, so the whole music will suffer even more and more, we'll probably hear more and more shit...

Anyway, SOME DJs are really good (They will be lesser and lesser) even if that not my thing, any musician can't be DJ and vice versa. That's two pretty different job.

Ps : I really prefer Immigrant Song or stuff more powerful from Led Zep but that's just a matter of taste... They still rock whatever they play !

 

i like Immigrant song too,but i gotta admit that when i watched them playing Whole lotta love during the celebration day concert ,they left me with a boner,they were in pretty good shape

 

Hehe dude, the thread title really made me laugh

Thanks for this

Have to watch the whole show...

 

Same could be said about musicians who think they're song writers.

 

Well music changes... i mean not in inspiration but in tools that are used to "create" it and "perform" it. I'm the the both worlds and what i have to say is some guys are really skilled with a controller while some others really suck at the guitar. Electronic musicians faced the same problems with "traditional" musicians back in days so there's nothing new there.

 

I agree with you phenomboy -- But the music you show in the clip has no soul, it's cold....
It doesn't mean that I don't listen nor produce Electronic music.
Generally Electronic Music has no real soul, until you add human elements!

 

Well "soul" is very relative my friend. Btw the purpose of the video is to show that controllerists aren't just "button-pushers" but can have skills just like turntablist or guitarists.
Regarding the "soul" question, i consider one piece of music has it each time it can trigger feelings of any kind on me (happiness, melancholia, amazement etc...) and that happen to me with Electronic or any "All human driven" music (if it exists). At the end music is a personal experience and how we live it is always different from one to another.

 

Big fan of Zep and Bonham, but "Stairway to Heaven" is not on my favorites list. ("Black Dog" turned me on my head as a drummer.) Frank Zappa said rock journalists are "people who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read." I feel the whole club scene is people who can't play, using stuff from people who can, for people who can't dance. Real dancers and musicians know there is more to dancing than techno beats.

 

amen

 

This music has SOUL and is electronic ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYv6GlcFGF0

 

Who Is Who In The Music Industry?
How Does It Make You Feel?
Where Do We Live?
Where Do I Live?

*no* *no*

 

yes i got the 7" as well as the album, both in mint condition
which is sort of irrelevant, but...



Now for my thoughts on this topic...

1st the dj vs musician agenda

i bookmarked this topic, and visited several times, and re-watched the led-zep video
each time it brings the same chills, thought about what to post and so here it is.

it was 1966. i was 8 years old. my brother got drafted. took me to see a concert.
led zep and steppenwolf. yes i took whatever they gave me, and i dont regret it.
but i was there and experienced it.
then he left for vietnam and never came back- well a box with some dirt and his dog tags.

yes i know the record never came out till late 1971, but zep played it live before that

i promised him i would live for the music and keep it alive.

spent the next 20 years mastering orchestral bass, lead guitar, cello, drums etc
as well as being on several records (yes vinyl) and touring as a pro Dj.

Here is my point-

some DJ's actually do have a music background, and are actually musicians
i am not argue-ing or disrespecting the original post

but i do understand your point

meaning musical talent and originality of an instrument

a midi controller, cdj, interface- is not an instrument

so i must agree with the original post.

ramble on or not

peace

 

i wanna thank phenomboy,ruok and dj dj-digital for their replies,u all were kind,i expected some flaming in the thread,but there s time for that.
but u brought here was actual music,phenomboy posted a video of a guy using a controller,ruok posted another vid interesting music,and dj-digital spoke more like a musician rather than a dj.
let me clear some things please:
the post wasn t meant to be a kick in the ass to those people,dj's in primis,but i could extend it to some other categories of people who think they make music,like rappers(i finally said it) and all those bunch of incividuals who reduce music to a copy and paste thing,or think that stealing or paying to use part of a song to sample it,add a drum loop and claim the right to define themsleves musicians.
i wanna make an example to explain what i mean:
i think most of u know eminem and at least once,by choice or not,heard the song " sing for the moment",where he looped part of aerosmith's " dream on"....
...well,what do u remember of that song?
the neverending dirge blabbed by eminem,or the loop taken from the original song?
i hope to be right thinking u chose the second answer.
this is just to say in spite of what the majority of media wants to make people believe,some people who are ackoledged geniuses by MTV and disney and the rest,would have never existed since they built their work on someone else's ides,they shrunk them to the bone and re-extended them to the lenght of a song that nobody would remember without the print of the original source.
and those people define themselves musicians?
please
what dj's do is even worse.
if they define temselves producers or something else i wouldn t mind,but whan they say they make music it realy pisses me off.
now,what u guys posted herewas a littleout of topic,because what u gave us to listen was actual ,music,electronic music,but music,something that implies a human choice,i d never dare to say that something isn t music just because it s not made with traditional instruments.
my point is:it s not the tools that r used that give something the name of music,it s the people behind those tools that make it such
this wasn t a topic to state the superiority of rock on electronic music,it s never been my intention,this was a statement of the superiority of real music makers(whatever music they make and whatever tools they use) on fake music makers,that is the ones who don t know music at all and pretend to make it.
thanks

 

Is it just me or is all everyone's done so far is said how talented true Musician's are?

I don't get why phenomboy showed a video of a musician playing a midi controller?
Midi controllers are instruments for some of the new generation, Just like Sin-wave generators where for some in the 70's (Kraftwerk) and Synthersysers where for others in the 80's (Human League)

The point is the DJ's skills mostly consist of song speed matching and crowd reading. Neather is achiving anything musical so they are not musicians.
Even if they play multiple songs at the same time and add a couple of samples, it's not a new song. It's still old songs presented in a new way.

BUT if a DJ is not being a DJ, ie. is creating something new with a instrument, he's Not DJing so he can be a musician in that instance.

I can't think of any examples of this though

 

yes,it s very difficult

 

I really was about to let this thread die and not say a word, that's until duskwings open a whole different side behind his last post, in which, he try to do a Mitt Romney, contradicting himself and all of a sudden switch to "rappers"? That Eminem example is not fitting this thread because the thread is putting Musicians vs DJ's. Dr Dre and Jeff Bass produced "Sing for The Moment"; No DJ involved. So, it is irrelevant to this thread.
Anyway, there are so many misguided, misfired, misinterpreted, misinformed points on DJ's, it's not even even funny. Let's find a balance understanding of the many facets today's DJ can be, not "rappers" since the original thread isn't/wasn't about that.

Let's get into it: Original title by the OP: "dedicated to those who think dj's r musicians"? Before anyone answered, a few clarification should have been asked for: what type of DJ's? which Genre? Is the OP implying that no current DJ (by his knowledge) are musicians?

DJ's here in OP's title equals ALL DJ's since it is used broad. Let's not "blah, blah, blah" like Ke$ha here, let's dig deeper and this.

I'll take one example for my rebuttal and explain how and why all DJ's are not equal:
Brian Trenseau better known as Bt is a music producer, composer, audio technician, multi-instrumentalist, singer, and songwriter... google it, bing it, yahoo it if you want. However, by large in the general public, most people who hear the name Bt, knows him as a DJ. So, wait, I mean, wait... Bt produces and follow the same formula a musician do: Write the song, play the instrument, arrangements, mix and master. He choose to make a career also as a DJ because that's his passion, then automatically because we see him behind two CDJs then all of a sudden, all the skills he has doesn't apply anymore?

That's where most done got it twisted and wrong. Bt, performs as a DJ. However, he has musician skills in the studio. Of course, a musician recreates what he played in the studio live on stage, and a DJ plays tracks live. Musicians and DJ's no matter the level of the skills, are there for two different purposes. As much as I like Led Zeppelin, on a Saturday night with some fun chicks around, I might want to go to Pacha and listen and dance to a DJ; Nothing wrong with that. Just like some other folks may choose to go to Blue Note and see a Jazz band for the night. Hey! just choices.

My point is simple, stop bagging everybody in the same bin, and categorize DJ's as a broad "all the same", "do the same".
There are regular DJ's, who simply as the original task required, do just that: Play, cut and mix records(Hip-Hop, Dance, Country, etc..).
There are the Turntablist DJs, who goes to battles and DMC competitions; manipulate records, scratches everything that moves. Q-Bert, Shiftee, Rob Swift, DJ Rectangle, Perplex, etc...
There are Wedding DJ's (yes, specialize in doing just that, weddings. And that requires a Tuxedo, almost all the time )
There are Radio personalities, also taking the moniker of DJs (Angie Martinez on Hot97 in New York fit that case)

Then we have the category that best match this DJ vs Musician thread. There are DJ/Producers/Remixers, which for now reside mostly in EDM music and are the most talk about DJ's lately. These DJs/Producers produce their own records and remix others. Often, some of these DJs are musicians as I used Bt as a prime example (see definition of musician below), these DJ's simply don't perform on stage with a traditional instrument, which by the way, is not a requirement, nor mandatory in any book, law, or country.

MUSICIAN definition:
Noun:
A person who is talented or skilled in music.
A person who plays a musical instrument, esp. professionally.
Synonyms: player - bandsman - music player - composer

I may not be the best at grammar and all, but gentlemen, we can agree by the definition of a musician that If I play the keyboard, and I play it well; I record a track in the studio, and I come out and play it in a DJ set, there's nothing that can take away the fact that I can play the keyboard. The settings for the DJ allows me to play that song on a CDJ or 1200's or whatever else and doesn't have to play it live like I'm Billy Joel (although, I may be as skilled as Billy Joel).
Morgan Page, Wolfgang Gartner, Paul Van Dyk, Martin Solveig, St. Germain, JUSTICE, to name a few, they all play instruments and produce dozens upon dozens of tracks. And, wait, they can't be considered "musicians"? Talking of JUSTICE, dudes came out with a Grand Piano at Ultra in Miami, played it live and what? they are not musicians?
Even in the worst form possible, I could list Skrillex because he was a drummer, and that's in the worst form

Now, I'll also be honest and recognize that there are far more traditional musicians than the typical DJ who is also a skilled musician. But my point to rebut this notion in the thread is simply to say, listen, you can actually find DJ's who plays instruments. The number maybe low but they exist with facts to prove it.


As far as quality of the music, the genre and so forth, well... It will fall under a matter of your taste and what you like. phenomboy example video may have not quite explains his words, but he said it right: "At the end music is a personal experience and how we live it is always different from one to another."
You could consider every DJ/Producers the worst you ever heard. Well, you have 100% right to feel however you want to feel. Nobody should be telling you not to. However, remember, these are feelings expressed through opinions. Your feelings don't overwrite these producers knowledge and skills (at least the one who are skilled). Just like someone who may never liked or considered Led Zeppelin a great band. Well, his feelings don't overwrite the skill, knowledge and achievement of Robert Plant, Jimmy Page and John Bonham.

As long as we are debating sense and facts and not just pure garbage talk then we'll find that the fact is, many DJ's are actually more than just DJ's.

....................................................
As far as that "Hip-Hop samples" subject, that's a whole different thread on its own.

 

ron franc ,i understand your point,and i can agree somehow,but the fact that a dj can have musical skills doesn t mean he is a musician when he dj's,u re a musician when u make music,u re not a musician when u don t make music.
can musical knowledge help a dj do a better job?maybe,but if they have musical knowledge they predictably feel like expressing themselves with something beyond djing.
to put it simple:
u got musical knowledge,u play and instrument or sing better than anyone else and then u dj?
ok,my respect for u,but while u dj u re not being a musician,u re a musician who s djing,that is u re doing something else;
everybody who never touched a guitar in their life can play "knocking on heaven 's door" by bob dylan,and probably better than him,this doesn t change the fact he wrote it; a dj playing the record,remixing it,,editing it doesn t make him a musician,although his knowledge would allow him to be a 21st century mozart.
a dj is not a musician just like a carpertnter is not a musician,they could be musicians,but they aren t as long as they don t make music

 

Let me put that in BOLD for you:
Morgan Page, Wolfgang Gartner, Paul Van Dyk, Martin Solveig, St. Germain, JUSTICE plays the keyboard. Yes, they know how to play like any keyboardist.
See, you are so blind by your opinions that you are skipping the plain facts that I wrote? Do your research before you can outright claim that X, Y, Z are not musicians.
So, you are really sitting here arguing that Bt is not a DJ and producer, composer, audio technician, multi-instrumentalist, singer, and songwriter? When in fact he is? Are you serious? Nobody else is or can be? Because you say so?

Man, it's like saying an actor can't be a writer or can't direct a movie. then, you never research that specific actor that you claiming outright can't direct or write?
A Graphic artist can never develop enough skills to know how to work on 3D and Motion?

Your example simply saying that nobody can have multiple skills? You read what you wrote, bro? Take time and read it.
It makes no sense, human being as a whole can have multiple skills and perform them independent from each other. That's basic fundamentals teached to kids in kindergarten.

Honestly, if it's what you are getting at, then my friend, no need to debate with you.

 

Well, and what about 'DJs' who became not only 'pure' musicians, but even more, 'pure' references (and 'Living Legends' !) in their own area ?

I'm simply talking about the 'SO GREAT' BB KING, one of the 3 'Real Kings' of the Blues, along with the two others Kings : Albert King & Freddie King...

BB KING in his early (musical) days was a 'DJ' prior to become who he is now ! *yes*
And this was in a time where the term of 'DJ' was certainly not so popular than nowadays *no*, to not say almost 'freaky' !!!

At that time, it certainly could pursue his first vocation and become a good 'DJ' known locally (or even through a wide area), but the fact is that learning and playing music by itself has certainly attracted him more.

All this just to say that 'Love and Passion' for Music, either by doing your own 'cooking' or by 'transforming' something already existing, always takes precedence over the means to achieve the greater satisfaction in what you do and in your creative processes...

It was just my 2 cents ! *yes*